|Did James Hanson lie for money selling his book?13-01-2019 19:12|
|Tai Hai Chen★★★★☆
|He said O2 and N2 in the air cause no warming, only CO2 does. I think he lie. 99.9999% of warming in the air is caused by air pressure caused by O2 and N2. How can you say O2 and N2 do not cause warming? I think CO2 follows temperature, not cause temperature. CO2 is highest since 4 million years ago when temperature was much higher than today. And don't tell me all the heat goes into ocean because if that were true there would never be summer in any given year.|
|The whole 'Climate Change' thing is a lie. Pretty sure that CO2 was the only byproduct of burning carbon-based fuels, that could be used. H2O is too common, naturally abundant, much needed. Most of the other gasses, vapors, and particulates can be filtered or reduced, and have been, to boost economy and efficiency. Carbon-based fuels are our most useful energy source, so controlling production and use, effects most everybody. Also a whole lot of money is involved, and people are greedy. We've had several periods, lasting a few consecutive years, which were overall warmer, than the few degrees predicted by the IPCC by 2100. Obviously, we cooled off some. Weather and climate sort of run that way, and can't be predicted. The sun provides all the warming/energy, least what we are to believe. Scientists also believe the planet's core is molten rock, like what comes out of volcanoes, pretty hot stuff. Have to figure some of that heat gets out occasionally as well. The 'greenhouse' is bogus, no enclosure, and the atmosphere expands and contracts. The IPCC ignores or discounts a lot of little details, that destroy the warming scare. They'll run out of excuses eventually.|
Tai Hai Chen wrote:
Let me see if I can clear this up. N2 and O2 absorb in the upper UV region (UV-C). The sun on the other hand emits the overwhelming amount of energy in the visible bands. So while there is some small atmospheric heating from these two gases it is negligible.
CO2 absorbs energy in the 2.5 and 5 um region. But again this is on the very lowest end of the sun's emission bands or the very highest levels of the earth's emissions. Therefore there isn't a lot of energy to absorb.
This is why CO2 simply doesn't have a whole lot of effect. Some 50% or so of the transmission of heat through the atmosphere is via the various conduction processes (hold one end of a copper bar and heat the other end and it will conduct down and you can feel the heat). As with other conduction processes the movement of heat via conduction is quite slow and so the exit of heat from the planet is slowed.
Most of the energy that falls upon the Earth is finally emitted. Some tiny portion of it causes plant growth. In fact quite a surprisingly small amount of it. Less than 1%. So 99%+ of the sun's energy that falls upon the earth is emitted back into open space. The Second Law of Thermodynamics tells us that heat always naturally flows from a hotter body to a cooler one. Furthermore realize that the growing of plants manufactures a material called "Alternative Oxidase" which generates and releases heat into the surrounding environment so part of the energy absorbed by heat is again released to be emitted. So like animals not all supposed to be cold blooded are. For instance - Tuna Fish are warmblooded and has red, blood rich meat. Likewise Skunk Cabbage defends itself from snow by emitting enough heat to melt the snow.
So almost all of the heat that strikes the earth is again emitted into open space.
|Into the Night★★★★★
Tai Hai Chen wrote:
You basically have it right. Air pressure means more mass per cubic foot. This makes it easier for the surface in contact with that air to heat it by conduction. It is also that much easier for the Sun to heat directly.
No gas or vapor can cause the Earth to warm by using emitted infrared from the Earth's surface.
Ocean water is heated by the Sun, just as the land is. Warmer water in the oceans rise just like warm air rises (for the same reason). Warm ocean water stays on the surface.
The Parrot Killer
|Into the Night★★★★★
Wake wrote:Tai Hai Chen wrote:
Now we shall here some more illiteracy by Wake.
This is false. O2 absorbs UV-B light, not UV-C. This is an example of high frequency light causing chemical reactions, rather than heating. A side effect of O2 absorbing UV-B light is a reduction of temperature as the material is converted to O3. This takes place near the bottom of the stratosphere. Most, but not all UV-B is absorbed by this process.
O3 absorbs UV-C light. This destroys the ozone, and produces oxygen again. This is an exothermic reaction and takes place higher in the stratosphere. This process absorbs ALL UV-C and prevents any of it from reaching the surface.
This is why there is a temperature inversion in the stratosphere. It's called the Chapman cycle.
WRONG. The Sun emits most of its energy in the infrared band. The visible light bands, while higher in energy, is a very narrow band compared to infrared.
Both of these gases also absorb infrared light.
CO2 absorption of surface infrared is incapable of warming the Earth. It is just another way for the surface to cool itself by heating the atmosphere.
There is plenty of energy to absorb. The trouble is, you don't know how much is being absorbed!
The emissivity of Earth is unknown.
None. Zip. Zero. Nada. Na. No gas or vapor has any capability to warm the Earth using Earth's infrared emitted light.
Argument from randU fallacy. Earth, including Earth's surface, is heated by radiance from the Sun. All of heat leaving Earth is by radiance into space. Most of that comes from the surface directly. See the Stefan-Boltzmann law.
ALL of it is emitted, Wake.
WRONG. While some goes into plant growth, that is visible light doing that, which does not cause conversion to thermal energy when absorbed. Only infrared light causes conversion to thermal energy when absorbed. See quantum physics.
Plants aren't the only thing that reacts to visible light, Wake.
Argument from randU. You are making up numbers again.
WRONG. ALL of it is emitted back to space. What a plant may store, another plant gives up.
Given the same densities, true. Given unequal densities, not true.
More precisely, the law states that entropy must always increase or stay the same in any system, or in other words, that energy always dissipates or stays the same in any system. That system must be closed (consistent, and no energy that enters or leaving that system may be considered).
Aren't you forgetting where that plant gets its energy from to power this reaction?
You don't release heat to be emitted, Wake. Heat is not thermal energy. Heat may not be radiant heat at all. Heat is not stored anywhere to be 'released'.
Again, you are forgetting what powers this reaction in the first place.
Nope. ALL of it. Not almost all of it. ALL of it. Every last bit of it. You keep describing only one side of the coin as if it were both sides.
The Parrot Killer
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