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06-09-2021 19:42
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(16050)
James___ wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
James___ wrote:
keepit wrote:
You're misinformed ibd. And you exaggerate continually. For example you said that "i will believe any bs random number that someone feeds you". You say stuff like that and then claim you are a college professor. What college?

BTW, the covid moderna isn't a live vaccine.
Also, you can get covid and not know you are sick and still spread it around.



What they don't understand is that this might be a year round situation rather than a seasonal one like influenza. And with the flu, many people get vaccinated every year. With Covid 19 and its variants, it's more severe and can strain healthcare resources.
I've read where some hospitals are turning away covid patients simply because they don't have beds to put them in. A vaccination is less expensive than building more hospitals.


They need more than two beds.



As much as some people might not like it, this might be where 2 people to a room works. They could just isolate both patients with a floor to ceiling partition. Basically quarantine 2 patients with a central door to their respective spaces.

It's just that a lot of hospitals spent money on converting 2 patient rooms into 1 patient rooms. That decreased the number of beds per hospital unless additions to the hospital were built. It would've been easy enough to have sliding panels or folding panels that could isolate one patient from another.
This is where luxury came first while increasing the cost of healthcare. One of the reasons why it's so expensive in the US.

You are misinformed, James. Quarantine does not require a hospital at all.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
06-09-2021 21:45
James___
★★★★★
(4991)
It helps to have a hospital. When my brother had typhoid fever and had to be quarantined, nurses gave him shots every 4 hours. That also helped to prevent him from infecting other people.
07-09-2021 15:42
James___
★★★★★
(4991)
This story gets into the history of China's P4 lab in Wuhan. https://www.yahoo.com/news/inside-wuhan-lab-french-engineering-095320117.html And they say that with SARS, Chinese virologists went looking for its source and they found it. And that they also found the coronavirus as well.
Shi entered the international limelight on Jan. 23, 2020, the same day Chinese authorities sealed off Wuhan to contain a new disease. In a preprint paper, her team announced that they had found a virus 96.2 percent identical to the novel coronavirus.


The 3.8% difference could be mutations that allows it to infect people among other things. I'm not sure if the virus they found was most likely from the same cave or if it was that type of bat.
Seven years into her search, Shi discovered in 2011 a close relative to SARS in a cave in subtropical Yunnan province. Her team's paper, published in 2013, launched her to national prominence, and she gained the nickname "Bat Woman."


What's questionable is knowing China's willingness to not protect people or the environment. Does this same laissez-faire attitude extend to virology and the research associated with it?
Edited on 07-09-2021 15:44
07-09-2021 18:45
HarveyH55Profile picture★★★★★
(3614)
James___ wrote:
This story gets into the history of China's P4 lab in Wuhan. https://www.yahoo.com/news/inside-wuhan-lab-french-engineering-095320117.html And they say that with SARS, Chinese virologists went looking for its source and they found it. And that they also found the coronavirus as well.
Shi entered the international limelight on Jan. 23, 2020, the same day Chinese authorities sealed off Wuhan to contain a new disease. In a preprint paper, her team announced that they had found a virus 96.2 percent identical to the novel coronavirus.


The 3.8% difference could be mutations that allows it to infect people among other things. I'm not sure if the virus they found was most likely from the same cave or if it was that type of bat.
Seven years into her search, Shi discovered in 2011 a close relative to SARS in a cave in subtropical Yunnan province. Her team's paper, published in 2013, launched her to national prominence, and she gained the nickname "Bat Woman."


What's questionable is knowing China's willingness to not protect people or the environment. Does this same laissez-faire attitude extend to virology and the research associated with it?


Did you know the mRNA vaccine you got in you arm, was develop so quickly, because the Chinese uploaded the 'sequencing' for the dominant strain the devastated Wuhan, to an open-source website? That's right, America, the drug companies, didn't do their own sequencing, on the strains infecting people domestically. The Chinese sequence, was already outdated, before the uploaded it. It was pure luck, that it's been some what effective against the following variants.
07-09-2021 20:15
James___
★★★★★
(4991)
HarveyH55 wrote:
James___ wrote:
This story gets into the history of China's P4 lab in Wuhan. https://www.yahoo.com/news/inside-wuhan-lab-french-engineering-095320117.html And they say that with SARS, Chinese virologists went looking for its source and they found it. And that they also found the coronavirus as well.
Shi entered the international limelight on Jan. 23, 2020, the same day Chinese authorities sealed off Wuhan to contain a new disease. In a preprint paper, her team announced that they had found a virus 96.2 percent identical to the novel coronavirus.


The 3.8% difference could be mutations that allows it to infect people among other things. I'm not sure if the virus they found was most likely from the same cave or if it was that type of bat.
Seven years into her search, Shi discovered in 2011 a close relative to SARS in a cave in subtropical Yunnan province. Her team's paper, published in 2013, launched her to national prominence, and she gained the nickname "Bat Woman."


What's questionable is knowing China's willingness to not protect people or the environment. Does this same laissez-faire attitude extend to virology and the research associated with it?


Did you know the mRNA vaccine you got in you arm, was develop so quickly, because the Chinese uploaded the 'sequencing' for the dominant strain the devastated Wuhan, to an open-source website? That's right, America, the drug companies, didn't do their own sequencing, on the strains infecting people domestically. The Chinese sequence, was already outdated, before the uploaded it. It was pure luck, that it's been some what effective against the following variants.


你确定你不是中国人?你肯定向他们展示了很多爱。

You = 你 (Nǐ). Now I understand Harvey why your people can't keep up with the West. Too much brain power is used on understanding the coding of your language.
08-09-2021 02:13
James___
★★★★★
(4991)
I'd like to give you an easy out on this Harvey but language is what it is. I started learning
Norwegian and Engleske at the same time. Which one is the right way? They are both Germanic languages. They are variants of what is possibly known as the Germanic Hoards who ancient Rome didn't control.
It's said that the Germanic Hoard conquered Rome and destroyed its aqueducts. History is so much fun.
08-09-2021 02:30
James___
★★★★★
(4991)
And we're back to this; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMS_n1l3Wxc
08-09-2021 03:37
HarveyH55Profile picture★★★★★
(3614)
James___ wrote:
I'd like to give you an easy out on this Harvey but language is what it is. I started learning
Norwegian and Engleske at the same time. Which one is the right way? They are both Germanic languages. They are variants of what is possibly known as the Germanic Hoards who ancient Rome didn't control.
It's said that the Germanic Hoard conquered Rome and destroyed its aqueducts. History is so much fun.


You are obviously not quite as smart, as you want to impress, not communicate. Communication is the language you, and your audience both understand, and use. You do realize that most people won't bother to google-translate, so why do you bother? Anybody can do it, it's free, and nobody cares. Links to videos, with no description, also get ignored. Google keeps track of your interests, and tries to conform. I don't won't them to suggest everything barely legal teens... Or a bunch of insane crap, I have no use or interest.
08-09-2021 03:50
James___
★★★★★
(4991)
HarveyH55 wrote:
James___ wrote:
I'd like to give you an easy out on this Harvey but language is what it is. I started learning
Norwegian and Engleske at the same time. Which one is the right way? They are both Germanic languages. They are variants of what is possibly known as the Germanic Hoards who ancient Rome didn't control.
It's said that the Germanic Hoard conquered Rome and destroyed its aqueducts. History is so much fun.


You are obviously not quite as smart, as you want to impress, not communicate. Communication is the language you, and your audience both understand, and use. You do realize that most people won't bother to google-translate, so why do you bother? Anybody can do it, it's free, and nobody cares. Links to videos, with no description, also get ignored. Google keeps track of your interests, and tries to conform. I don't won't them to suggest everything barely legal teens... Or a bunch of insane crap, I have no use or interest.



So you have no answer? You've never been outside of the US? Never to Scandinavia, Europe or the South Pacific? How about Asia?
Harvey, I have been to Asia. Yekaterinburg, Russia is in Asia. About 25 kms west of Yekaterinburg is Europe.
With Pie Town, New Mexico, it is called the Continental divide. That is in the US.
In Russia, it's between Perm and Yekaterinburg.
Also the Philippines are in Asia, have been there as well. And South Korea. What are you saying?
Please don't tell me, you guys have only lived in one country. OMG!!! I have heard about people like you. But what idiot only lives in 1 country and speaks 1 language? Are you guys that stupid?


Harvey, I am trying to be nice here. You guys know more than English and the US, right? Work with me, okay?
Edited on 08-09-2021 04:08
08-09-2021 05:15
James___
★★★★★
(4991)
It's sad in a way. You've never been to Korea. Not to Germany or the Philippines. And not to Australia or Denmark. And yet you are an American. I'm not sure what that means. My father was from Norway and he wasn't a white Supremacist. Some people are just better.
And then there are people like myself. We know who you are.
08-09-2021 06:50
James___
★★★★★
(4991)
HarveyH55 wrote:

You are obviously not quite as smart, as you want to impress, not communicate. Communication is the language you, and your audience both understand, and use. You do realize that most people won't bother to google-translate, so why do you bother? Anybody can do it, it's free, and nobody cares. Links to videos, with no description, also get ignored. Google keeps track of your interests, and tries to conform. I don't won't them to suggest everything barely legal teens... Or a bunch of insane crap, I have no use or interest.



Ешё Я знаю что? Я не думаю. Я быль в Екатеринбупгь. почему?
мой хоббий. как о тебя? Сказать мне.

Still, I know what? As you said. There is Google translate. Yet I was in Yekaterinburg. That is east of the Ural mountains and Perm is west. It is a big difference in Russia. No translator can tell you why.
A French guy and a Russian founded the city of Yekaterinburg. Tsars collected taxes. That was west of the Ural Mountains. With Yekaterinburg, the Tsar did not collect taxes. Russia stopped at the Ural Mountains.
It is a part of the history of Yekaterinburg. When you visit there, you will learn this. I'm not sure how a translator will help.
08-09-2021 07:20
James___
★★★★★
(4991)
And then there is Russenorsk. https://www.thegreatcoursesdaily.com/russenorsk-a-unique-yet-simple-language-made-for-trade/

Maybe Google translate knows this as well? It is online. Anyone can find it and my great grandmother was from St. Petersburg, Russia like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naZUEZII_1U
She lives in Finland.

p.s., they did release a cd,https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5loUVjr4_zQ

p.s.s., Tsar and Tsarikova, or is that Csar or Czar? Ivanovich (ивановичь) is son of Ivan. o вичь son of. Is Tsarikova daughter of the Tsar? Russian names are patriarchal and never matriarchal.
Edited on 08-09-2021 07:27
19-09-2021 04:46
duncan61
★★★★☆
(1350)
I have waited till Australia made its own AstraZeneca. 50 million doses will be manufactured in Australia by multinational biopharmaceutical company CSL, in partnership with the developer, international pharmaceutical company AstraZeneca.This local stuff hit the shelves a fortnight ago and is suitable for over 60s.I did some research on getting jabbed and it was all to hard however the next day I was in a shopping centre and the billboard said get vaccinated here so I did it on the spot.No pain at first but that night I had mild flu symptoms which had gone by morning.
19-09-2021 19:47
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(16050)
James___ wrote:
It helps to have a hospital. When my brother had typhoid fever and had to be quarantined, nurses gave him shots every 4 hours. That also helped to prevent him from infecting other people.

Quarantine does not require a hospital, nor does a hospital help.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
19-09-2021 19:51
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(16050)
duncan61 wrote:
I have waited till Australia made its own AstraZeneca. 50 million doses will be manufactured in Australia by multinational biopharmaceutical company CSL, in partnership with the developer, international pharmaceutical company AstraZeneca.This local stuff hit the shelves a fortnight ago and is suitable for over 60s.I did some research on getting jabbed and it was all to hard however the next day I was in a shopping centre and the billboard said get vaccinated here so I did it on the spot.No pain at first but that night I had mild flu symptoms which had gone by morning.


So you submitted to the mobocracy by AstraZeneca, eh?

Did it make you suspicious at all that AstraZeneca is British, and that they made a special deal with your government, which is being tyrannical, and which is MAKING MONEY off of this special deal?


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
19-09-2021 21:18
HarveyH55Profile picture★★★★★
(3614)
Nothing wrong with people getting the vaccine, if they want it, or need it. With the extremely high recovery rate, similar to the flu. It's kind of strange the the news, and the government is still hyping this pandemic, like it was still 2020, with no vaccines at all. I don't know about the rest of the world, but the lack of available ICU beds, isn't the lack of beds, but staff to attend to them. The virus comes through in waves. When things get slow, the hospitals tend to cut hours, or lay off excessive staff. The staff still have bills to pay, and find other work, something more stable. Being short staffed, when the next wave hits, is extremely rough, long hours. Some just need to take a break. Of course, the hospitals are slow to increase staff, since they will need to reduce staff again in a few weeks, after the wave peaks.

It's gotten near impossible to gauge the progression of the pandemic. All the statistics are manipulated, or misleading. Everything meant for hype and hysteria, to continue the mass vaccination mandates. There has to be something more to the vaccines, than just the pandemic. The recovery rate without it, is just too damn high, to keep pushing so hard. Biden mandates private businesses to vaccinate all workers. Biden rationing a drug, that has been working well on high-risk cases in Florida, to pressure more people to get vaccinated. Oddly though, some of the highest demographics for non-vaccination, are people on public assistance (welfare, food, stamps, subsidies). Seem like he could very easily attach any hook he wants, to those wanting taxpayer money, but doesn't. I don't know if there is something 'funny' about the vaccines, or if it's just the usual power/control, steal all you can, swamp-rat crap. I do know that they are setting some pretty shitty precedents with the mandates, that can, and probably will be used later. The mail-out-ballots, to people who never requested them, is likely a valuable tool for stealing elections. If you never requested a ballot, you'll never be disappointed if one never arrives. You'll never think any different, might not bother going out to vote. Those who get that 'surprise' ballot in the mail, will feel obligated to fill it out, send it back. Of course, if it's mostly democrats, who get the 'gift' in the mail, there is going to be a hug return. Such changes should never been allowed during the election cycle.

I don't think it's just America, but seems like most of the world is using the pandemic, to make similar changes, working towards a common goal, post-pandemic.
20-09-2021 03:08
duncan61
★★★★☆
(1350)
Into the Night wrote:
duncan61 wrote:
I have waited till Australia made its own AstraZeneca. 50 million doses will be manufactured in Australia by multinational biopharmaceutical company CSL, in partnership with the developer, international pharmaceutical company AstraZeneca.This local stuff hit the shelves a fortnight ago and is suitable for over 60s.I did some research on getting jabbed and it was all to hard however the next day I was in a shopping centre and the billboard said get vaccinated here so I did it on the spot.No pain at first but that night I had mild flu symptoms which had gone by morning.


So you submitted to the mobocracy by AstraZeneca, eh?

Did it make you suspicious at all that AstraZeneca is British, and that they made a special deal with your government, which is being tyrannical, and which is MAKING MONEY off of this special deal?


Not at all I am British from the house of Windsor and I hope we stitched the Aussie monkeys up good.My entire family that I live with are fully vaccinated .I did research and had some good advice from a nurse I met at the Casino and it started a whole debate in the smoking area.I did it because I could not through fear or government pressure and its all to easy.There is a good chance the second jab on 8/12/2021 will have no side effects.You can still get and spread the virus it just may not be so severe.We are keeping the rest of the world locked out till Easter next year so suck it.


duncan61
Edited on 20-09-2021 03:09
20-09-2021 20:01
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(16050)
duncan61 wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
duncan61 wrote:
I have waited till Australia made its own AstraZeneca. 50 million doses will be manufactured in Australia by multinational biopharmaceutical company CSL, in partnership with the developer, international pharmaceutical company AstraZeneca.This local stuff hit the shelves a fortnight ago and is suitable for over 60s.I did some research on getting jabbed and it was all to hard however the next day I was in a shopping centre and the billboard said get vaccinated here so I did it on the spot.No pain at first but that night I had mild flu symptoms which had gone by morning.


So you submitted to the mobocracy by AstraZeneca, eh?

Did it make you suspicious at all that AstraZeneca is British, and that they made a special deal with your government, which is being tyrannical, and which is MAKING MONEY off of this special deal?


Not at all I am British from the house of Windsor and I hope we stitched the Aussie monkeys up good.My entire family that I live with are fully vaccinated .I did research and had some good advice from a nurse I met at the Casino and it started a whole debate in the smoking area.I did it because I could not through fear or government pressure and its all to easy.There is a good chance the second jab on 8/12/2021 will have no side effects.You can still get and spread the virus it just may not be so severe.We are keeping the rest of the world locked out till Easter next year so suck it.


It's an airborne virus, dope. It's already everywhere. Paradox V.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
21-09-2021 02:19
duncan61
★★★★☆
(1350)
Well no one has it here and we are keeping it that way
21-09-2021 04:55
HarveyH55Profile picture★★★★★
(3614)
duncan61 wrote:
Well no one has it here and we are keeping it that way


It's still probably lingering around. For most people, the symptoms are mild, like a cold. Many people are afraid to admit they might be infected with it. The symptoms are your immune response, so it could be a lot of other things, besides covid. Could be covid, and dismissed as an allergy, like to dust or pollen, which is pretty common. The pandemic will still go on for another year or two. Soon after you open the doors to the outside world, you start getting new cases. The vaccines aren't 100% effective for everyone. The antibodies created, don't last for ever. The US has been debating over booster shots, after 6-8 months from full vaccination (one, or two shots). This is kind of odd, since they had seem to be starting, with those at high-risk, then suddenly stopped, to discuss the need. There has been some talk of a new version of the vaccines, to better deal with variants. There has been talk of a combo covid and universal flu mRNA vaccine soon as well. Chemically, the mRNA vaccines are going to be substantially different, and the FDA requirement for trials shouldn't be as strict, as normal new drugs. Only the genetic instructions are being changed, which is new territory for drug approval. Think this is why all the debate. I tend to believe the booster shots went over kind of rough, and a high number of people had a bad time for a few days. Basically, the protection from the initial vaccination is starting to fade for many. A booster, is likely to be rough going for quite a few. Be a tough sell on all mRNA vaccines, after word starts getting around, specially if people die from it. A new version of the vaccine, might mitigate some of the negatives. Should get interesting in the next couple of months.
21-09-2021 19:58
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(16050)
duncan61 wrote:
Well no one has it here and we are keeping it that way


Then why is Australia locking down??????


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
21-09-2021 19:59
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(16050)
HarveyH55 wrote:
duncan61 wrote:
Well no one has it here and we are keeping it that way


It's still probably lingering around. For most people, the symptoms are mild, like a cold. Many people are afraid to admit they might be infected with it. The symptoms are your immune response, so it could be a lot of other things, besides covid. Could be covid, and dismissed as an allergy, like to dust or pollen, which is pretty common. The pandemic will still go on for another year or two. Soon after you open the doors to the outside world, you start getting new cases. The vaccines aren't 100% effective for everyone. The antibodies created, don't last for ever. The US has been debating over booster shots, after 6-8 months from full vaccination (one, or two shots). This is kind of odd, since they had seem to be starting, with those at high-risk, then suddenly stopped, to discuss the need. There has been some talk of a new version of the vaccines, to better deal with variants. There has been talk of a combo covid and universal flu mRNA vaccine soon as well. Chemically, the mRNA vaccines are going to be substantially different, and the FDA requirement for trials shouldn't be as strict, as normal new drugs. Only the genetic instructions are being changed, which is new territory for drug approval. Think this is why all the debate. I tend to believe the booster shots went over kind of rough, and a high number of people had a bad time for a few days. Basically, the protection from the initial vaccination is starting to fade for many. A booster, is likely to be rough going for quite a few. Be a tough sell on all mRNA vaccines, after word starts getting around, specially if people die from it. A new version of the vaccine, might mitigate some of the negatives. Should get interesting in the next couple of months.

Duncan is hallucinating. Covid19 is in Australia just like anywhere else.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
22-09-2021 03:08
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(9934)


duncan61 wrote:Well no one has it here and we are keeping it that way

Question: Why do municipalities install street lights?
Answer: To keep the elephant herds away. Street lights are 100% effective.

If no one there has COVID then it's because there was never a pandemic crisis in the first place. Taking actions to avert a COVID threat is like installing street lights to keep the elephant herds away.

You should stay focused on Gravity's superpower to violate thermodynamics by going into the phone booth and emerging as Ener-G!

22-09-2021 03:20
duncan61
★★★★☆
(1350)
Into the Night wrote:
duncan61 wrote:
Well no one has it here and we are keeping it that way


Then why is Australia locking down??????


I live in the Perth suburbs in Western Australia.Melbourne is 36 hr (3,406.5 km) via National Highway A1.We have closed our borders to people coming in from the East Have a look on the map


duncan61
22-09-2021 06:01
Spongy Iris
★★★☆☆
(759)
There really is almost nobody in Australia suffering from covid.

Comparing the statistics between USA and Australia as of today...

Australia

cases 90 thousand , 0.3 % of pop
deaths 1 thousand , 0.004% of pop

USA

cases 43 million, 13% of pop
deaths 697 thousand, 0.2% of pop

Of course ITN will point out these are random numbers from Worldometer.

Just about everybody who gets marked as a coronavirus death had other reasons to blame for their death too. And the number of cases is just people so worried or forced to take the test.

The statistics don't provide perfect knowledge, but they're not totally random. They offer an indication of the intensity of viral spread in different areas all around the world.


22-09-2021 06:21
Spongy Iris
★★★☆☆
(759)
Spongy Iris wrote:
keepit wrote:

BTW, the covid moderna isn't a live vaccine.
Also, you can get covid and not know you are sick and still spread it around.


I think the E Coli in the Pfizer vaccines is a live culture...


I was reading on a blog, the first step to producing MRNA vaccinrs is: Produce the appropriate stretch of DNA, containing the sequence that you need to have transcribed into mRNA. This is generally done in bacterial culture.


22-09-2021 06:24
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(16050)
Spongy Iris wrote:
There really is almost nobody in Australia suffering from covid.

Making up numbers is a fallacy. Argument from randU fallacy.
Spongy Iris wrote:
Comparing the statistics between USA and Australia as of today...

Australia

cases 90 thousand , 0.3 % of pop
deaths 1 thousand , 0.004% of pop

USA

cases 43 million, 13% of pop
deaths 697 thousand, 0.2% of pop

The number of infections in any area is unknown. Covid19 does not kill.
Spongy Iris wrote:
Of course ITN will point out these are random numbers from Worldometer.

They are.
Spongy Iris wrote:
Just about everybody who gets marked as a coronavirus death had other reasons to blame for their death too. And the number of cases is just people so worried or forced to take the test.

These random numbers are also being used to try to get people to get vaccinated AND wear masks for the rest of their lives, shut down their businesses, not conduct business, etc. The goal is to implement total welfare (communism).
Spongy Iris wrote:
The statistics don't provide perfect knowledge, but they're not totally random.

They are totally random number of type randU.
Spongy Iris wrote:
They offer an indication of the intensity of viral spread in different areas all around the world.

They do not. The number of people infected in any area is unknown. It cannot be measured.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
22-09-2021 06:39
Spongy Iris
★★★☆☆
(759)
Into the Night wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
There really is almost nobody in Australia suffering from covid.

Making up numbers is a fallacy. Argument from randU fallacy.
Spongy Iris wrote:
Comparing the statistics between USA and Australia as of today...

Australia

cases 90 thousand , 0.3 % of pop
deaths 1 thousand , 0.004% of pop

USA

cases 43 million, 13% of pop
deaths 697 thousand, 0.2% of pop

The number of infections in any area is unknown. Covid19 does not kill.
Spongy Iris wrote:
Of course ITN will point out these are random numbers from Worldometer.

They are.
Spongy Iris wrote:
Just about everybody who gets marked as a coronavirus death had other reasons to blame for their death too. And the number of cases is just people so worried or forced to take the test.

These random numbers are also being used to try to get people to get vaccinated AND wear masks for the rest of their lives, shut down their businesses, not conduct business, etc. The goal is to implement total welfare (communism).
Spongy Iris wrote:
The statistics don't provide perfect knowledge, but they're not totally random.

They are totally random number of type randU.
Spongy Iris wrote:
They offer an indication of the intensity of viral spread in different areas all around the world.

They do not. The number of people infected in any area is unknown. It cannot be measured.


Another one of your nothing can be known arguments.

Have you ever heard the phrase, There are no absolutes?

But you only speak in absolutes!


22-09-2021 06:58
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(9934)
Spongy Iris wrote:Another one of your nothing can be known arguments.

You have become indistinguishable from tmiddles. Should you be treated as such?

Spongy Iris wrote:Have you ever heard the phrase, There are no absolutes?

Are you not aware of any absolutes? Let me know if you want one.

Spongy Iris wrote:But you only speak in absolutes!

That is a false statement ... kind of like something tmiddles would write. Please realize that makes you a dishonest moron. Is this the road down which you wish to travel?

22-09-2021 07:21
Spongy Iris
★★★☆☆
(759)
IBdaMann wrote:

You have become indistinguishable from tmiddles. Should you be treated as such?



My point is about analyzing large datasets, and seeing trends. There is random noise. But there are also trends that are not random. You can't just say, because there is some randomness it must be totally random, unless you wish to be a moron.

James brought up earlier that areas with larger population densities tended to have more cases and deaths as a non random trend.

Another non random trend is Summer has less illness than Winter.

These trends show up in the data.


22-09-2021 08:44
HarveyH55Profile picture★★★★★
(3614)
Spongy Iris wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:

You have become indistinguishable from tmiddles. Should you be treated as such?



My point is about analyzing large datasets, and seeing trends. There is random noise. But there are also trends that are not random. You can't just say, because there is some randomness it must be totally random, unless you wish to be a moron.

James brought up earlier that areas with larger population densities tended to have more cases and deaths as a non random trend.

Another non random trend is Summer has less illness than Winter.

These trends show up in the data.


Random, doesn't imply evenly distributed either. Sometimes, it's just random... Actual trends with covid statistics are near impossible, with the limited dataset. Not to mention it's highly political, so reporting is biased. Then there is the small sample size available, amplified with the use of computer models and wishful thinking (it's working/were all going to die).
22-09-2021 18:24
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(9934)


Spongy Iris wrote:My point is about analyzing large datasets, and seeing trends.

Sure, but the only reason for discussing data is to determine what rational conclusions can be reached. In this regard, at some point you must specify the data being discussed so that others can perform analyses and arrive at conclusions so as to discuss them. You do not get to simply imply that certain unavailable data exists and that other people not present for whom you pretend to speak have already determined the conclusions that those who are present must accept for some reason.

If the pretense for the data is itself FALSE, i.e. no such valid dataset exists and the numbers are simply fabrications, then the claim itself is FALSE right out of the starting gate.

tmiddles never could get out of the starting gate.



Spongy Iris wrote: There is random noise.

... which is not a pattern.

Spongy Iris wrote: But there are also trends that are not random.

This is called a "claim." How do you intend to support this claim?

Spongy Iris wrote: You can't just say, because there is some randomness it must be totally random, unless you wish to be a moron.

You are incorrect. Any randomness makes the system random. You should focus on understanding this concept before you proceed further.

I notice your rookie blunder of trying to qualify a system as "not random" by calling it "not totally random." This is the root of your mistake. Any system that is RANDOM is completely RANDOM. It's a binary value, not shades of grey.

Any number multiplied by zero is zero.
Any system controlled by RANDOM to any degree is a RANDOM system.

If you draw a card randomly from a deck, you do not know which card you will get. If you get to choose arbitrarily from which of three decks you randomly choose a card, although you have total control over from which deck you will draw.

Yahtzee is a great example of a RANDOM "system" that nonetheless affords players a great deal of control. All die rolls are accompanied by arbitrary decisions. The players have full control over which die they decide to reroll and what score to fill. Full control. Arbitrary decisions. It's still a RANDOM game.

Spongy Iris wrote: James brought up earlier that areas with larger population densities tended to have more cases and deaths as a non random trend.

Rookie mistake #2. You just pointed to a random outcome, you described the happenchance distribution and then ... drumroll please ... bizarrely decided to mislabel all of it as a "trend."

Flip a coin 1,000 times, jot down the results and let me know what "trends" you believe you see. You'll come to a much better understanding very quickly.

Spongy Iris wrote: Another non random trend is Summer has less illness than Winter.

That does not make illness non-random or even less random somehow. You need to learn the meanings of the words you use. If you roll a 20-sided die, your odds of rolling a "3" are 1-in-20. If you then switch to a six-sided die, your odds of rolling a "3" are increased to 1-in-6 and it's just as random as when you rolled your 20-sided die.

If you roll five six-sided die and add the result, you have a better chance of rolling a higher sum than if you only roll three die. Both are nonetheless RANDOM and neither is somehow "less" RANDOM than the other.

Spongy Iris wrote:These trends show up in the data.

You don't have any "The Data."

When players begin a game of Scrabble, they first agree on a dictionary as the "referee" for words. When people discuss conclusions from data, they agree on specific data as the "referee" for their conclusions.

Until you lay out all of "The Data" in its entirety for everyone to pore over, to scrutinize and to analyze, you have no argument. You become tmiddles, stuck at the starting gate.

I hope this helps. Don't be afraid to come to me with the hard stuff.

22-09-2021 19:54
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(16050)
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
There really is almost nobody in Australia suffering from covid.

Making up numbers is a fallacy. Argument from randU fallacy.
Spongy Iris wrote:
Comparing the statistics between USA and Australia as of today...

Australia

cases 90 thousand , 0.3 % of pop
deaths 1 thousand , 0.004% of pop

USA

cases 43 million, 13% of pop
deaths 697 thousand, 0.2% of pop

The number of infections in any area is unknown. Covid19 does not kill.
Spongy Iris wrote:
Of course ITN will point out these are random numbers from Worldometer.

They are.
Spongy Iris wrote:
Just about everybody who gets marked as a coronavirus death had other reasons to blame for their death too. And the number of cases is just people so worried or forced to take the test.

These random numbers are also being used to try to get people to get vaccinated AND wear masks for the rest of their lives, shut down their businesses, not conduct business, etc. The goal is to implement total welfare (communism).
Spongy Iris wrote:
The statistics don't provide perfect knowledge, but they're not totally random.

They are totally random number of type randU.
Spongy Iris wrote:
They offer an indication of the intensity of viral spread in different areas all around the world.

They do not. The number of people infected in any area is unknown. It cannot be measured.


Another one of your nothing can be known arguments.

Have you ever heard the phrase, There are no absolutes?

But you only speak in absolutes!


Making up numbers is making up numbers. The values you are quoting are not able to be determined. I have never said nothing can be known. The value you are quoting cannot be known.

Are you tmiddles?


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
22-09-2021 19:56
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(16050)
Spongy Iris wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:

You have become indistinguishable from tmiddles. Should you be treated as such?



My point is about analyzing large datasets, and seeing trends. There is random noise. But there are also trends that are not random. You can't just say, because there is some randomness it must be totally random, unless you wish to be a moron.

James brought up earlier that areas with larger population densities tended to have more cases and deaths as a non random trend.

Another non random trend is Summer has less illness than Winter.

These trends show up in the data.


Base rate fallacy.
The number of people ill is unknown.

Both numbers are random numbers of type randU, the so-called psuedo-random number, which is simply a number made up in someone's head.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
22-09-2021 19:57
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(16050)
HarveyH55 wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:

You have become indistinguishable from tmiddles. Should you be treated as such?



My point is about analyzing large datasets, and seeing trends. There is random noise. But there are also trends that are not random. You can't just say, because there is some randomness it must be totally random, unless you wish to be a moron.

James brought up earlier that areas with larger population densities tended to have more cases and deaths as a non random trend.

Another non random trend is Summer has less illness than Winter.

These trends show up in the data.


Random, doesn't imply evenly distributed either. Sometimes, it's just random... Actual trends with covid statistics are near impossible, with the limited dataset. Not to mention it's highly political, so reporting is biased. Then there is the small sample size available, amplified with the use of computer models and wishful thinking (it's working/were all going to die).


Exactly. A statistical summary of random numbers is just a random number. Indeed, one is not possible since it is not possible to declare any variance or calculate the margin of error value, which must accompany the summary.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
Edited on 22-09-2021 19:59
22-09-2021 20:08
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(16050)
IBdaMann wrote:


Spongy Iris wrote:My point is about analyzing large datasets, and seeing trends.

Sure, but the only reason for discussing data is to determine what rational conclusions can be reached. In this regard, at some point you must specify the data being discussed so that others can perform analyses and arrive at conclusions so as to discuss them. You do not get to simply imply that certain unavailable data exists and that other people not present for whom you pretend to speak have already determined the conclusions that those who are present must accept for some reason.

If the pretense for the data is itself FALSE, i.e. no such valid dataset exists and the numbers are simply fabrications, then the claim itself is FALSE right out of the starting gate.

tmiddles never could get out of the starting gate.



Spongy Iris wrote: There is random noise.

... which is not a pattern.

Spongy Iris wrote: But there are also trends that are not random.

This is called a "claim." How do you intend to support this claim?

Spongy Iris wrote: You can't just say, because there is some randomness it must be totally random, unless you wish to be a moron.

You are incorrect. Any randomness makes the system random. You should focus on understanding this concept before you proceed further.

I notice your rookie blunder of trying to qualify a system as "not random" by calling it "not totally random." This is the root of your mistake. Any system that is RANDOM is completely RANDOM. It's a binary value, not shades of grey.

Any number multiplied by zero is zero.
Any system controlled by RANDOM to any degree is a RANDOM system.

If you draw a card randomly from a deck, you do not know which card you will get. If you get to choose arbitrarily from which of three decks you randomly choose a card, although you have total control over from which deck you will draw.

Yahtzee is a great example of a RANDOM "system" that nonetheless affords players a great deal of control. All die rolls are accompanied by arbitrary decisions. The players have full control over which die they decide to reroll and what score to fill. Full control. Arbitrary decisions. It's still a RANDOM game.

Spongy Iris wrote: James brought up earlier that areas with larger population densities tended to have more cases and deaths as a non random trend.

Rookie mistake #2. You just pointed to a random outcome, you described the happenchance distribution and then ... drumroll please ... bizarrely decided to mislabel all of it as a "trend."

Flip a coin 1,000 times, jot down the results and let me know what "trends" you believe you see. You'll come to a much better understanding very quickly.

Spongy Iris wrote: Another non random trend is Summer has less illness than Winter.

That does not make illness non-random or even less random somehow. You need to learn the meanings of the words you use. If you roll a 20-sided die, your odds of rolling a "3" are 1-in-20. If you then switch to a six-sided die, your odds of rolling a "3" are increased to 1-in-6 and it's just as random as when you rolled your 20-sided die.

If you roll five six-sided die and add the result, you have a better chance of rolling a higher sum than if you only roll three die. Both are nonetheless RANDOM and neither is somehow "less" RANDOM than the other.

Spongy Iris wrote:These trends show up in the data.

You don't have any "The Data."

When players begin a game of Scrabble, they first agree on a dictionary as the "referee" for words. When people discuss conclusions from data, they agree on specific data as the "referee" for their conclusions.

Until you lay out all of "The Data" in its entirety for everyone to pore over, to scrutinize and to analyze, you have no argument. You become tmiddles, stuck at the starting gate.

I hope this helps. Don't be afraid to come to me with the hard stuff.



Yup. This is 'The Data' argument again. Claiming a summary result without any is pointless. It comes down to The Data.

Before I accept any data, I must know:
* when it was collected.
* who collected it.
* the method of collection, including any instrumentation used. That method must be an unbiased method.
* it must be published, along with all the other information I require.

Statistical math requires the declaration and justification of variance. You must calculate the margin of error value and that must accompany the summary.

* if a trend is claimed, you must declare the two points in time for the delta. You must justify why these two points in time are significant, and any other two points in time are NOT significant.

Unless you can do all of this, your claim is gunk. It is random numbers of type randU. You are making shit up.

"There are lies, damn lies, and statistics."

This is why. Many people, including the government, claim some statistical number and never ran a statistical summary or provided any data or the required metadata.

Everyone should see IBD's definition of 'The Data'. It is time once again to realize just how much stuff is just made up...by the government, by religions, by many people, simply because they do not know the requirements for statistical mathematics.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
Edited on 22-09-2021 20:17
22-09-2021 21:17
Spongy Iris
★★★☆☆
(759)
IBdaMann wrote:
At some point you must specify the data being discussed so that others can perform analyses and arrive at conclusions so as to discuss them.


Worldometer. Cases and deaths of corona virus.

IBdaMann wrote:
You are incorrect. Any randomness makes the system random. You should focus on understanding this concept before you proceed further.

I notice your rookie blunder of trying to qualify a system as "not random" by calling it "not totally random." This is the root of your mistake. Any system that is RANDOM is completely RANDOM. It's a binary value, not shades of grey.


I was talking about coronavirus cases and deaths counted. These counts per areas can be used as supporting evidence for why corona virus spreads more in certain areas and less in others.

For example areas of higher population density have greater coronavirus illness, which may lead to more deaths.

San Francisco county reports coronavirus deaths equal to approx 0.07% of its population. Los Angeles county reports corona virus deaths of approx. 0.68% of its population. Los Angeles county is far more densely populated than San Francisco county.

The state of Maine reports coronavirus deaths equal to approx 0.07% of its population. The state of New York reports corona virus deaths of approx. 0.29% of its population. New York is far more densely populated than Maine.


IBdaMann wrote:
Rookie mistake #2. You just pointed to a random outcome, you described the happenchance distribution and then ... drumroll please ... bizarrely decided to mislabel all of it as a "trend."

Flip a coin 1,000 times, jot down the results and let me know what "trends" you believe you see. You'll come to a much better understanding very quickly.


That does not make illness non-random or even less random somehow. You need to learn the meanings of the words you use. If you roll a 20-sided die, your odds of rolling a "3" are 1-in-20. If you then switch to a six-sided die, your odds of rolling a "3" are increased to 1-in-6 and it's just as random as when you rolled your 20-sided die.

If you roll five six-sided die and add the result, you have a better chance of rolling a higher sum than if you only roll three die. Both are nonetheless RANDOM and neither is somehow "less" RANDOM than the other.


Rolling a die is random. But It is not random that the odds of rolling a 3 on 6 sided die are greater than on a 20 sided die. The different odds were predetermined by how many sides the dice were made with.


23-09-2021 04:28
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(9934)
Spongy Iris wrote:Worldometer. Cases and deaths of corona virus.

Name-dropping is not data.

Spongy Iris wrote:San Francisco county reports coronavirus deaths equal to approx 0.07% of its population.

Houston, we have a problem. Government data is not accepted. Governments are in on the scam. One must presume that government data is totally fabricated and to exaggerated proportions.

Being totally honest, the only data I will accept is the number of death certificates with "COVID-19" written on Line A of Section I. The government won't provide that information because there really aren't any. The number is very, very close to zero. Nobody who was otherwise young and healthy has died from COVID and there never was any pandemic crisis.

You can prove me mistaken by providing the aforementioned death certificate information. Actually, just find me just ten such death certificates of people who were otherwise young and healthy that I can verify on my own and I'll reevaluate my position.

Spongy Iris wrote: Los Angeles county reports corona virus deaths of approx. 0.68% of its population.

... and I'm not buying it.

Spongy Iris wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
Rookie mistake #2. You just pointed to a random outcome, you described the happenchance distribution and then ... drumroll please ... bizarrely decided to mislabel all of it as a "trend."

Flip a coin 1,000 times, jot down the results and let me know what "trends" you believe you see. You'll come to a much better understanding very quickly.

Rolling a die is random. But It is not random that the odds of rolling a 3 on 6 sided die are greater than on a 20 sided die.

Totally immaterial. You are simply stating that two different words are different words. The randomness of an event is not governed by the probability of any outcome. A random system is a random system.

23-09-2021 05:00
HarveyH55Profile picture★★★★★
(3614)
The covid virus doesn't actually kill. Vast majority of people recover. Pretty easy too... A health immune system easily takes care of the infection, before significant tissue damage is done. Yeah, each infected cell, the virus factory, is destroyed. But once the immune system kicks in, few cells get infected. Those that fail to recover (die), don't have normal, healthy immune systems. They also have chronic health issues, and would have trouble with any type of infection, or body trauma, Not every state reports covid deaths the same. The CDC wants statistics on every death, where the fatality tested positive for covid, regardless of the primary cause of death. Someone decapitated in an accident, but tested positive for covid, would be listed as a covid death. Though, obviously covid had nothing to do with it. Grandma in a nursing home, after her third major stroke, probably would survive a common cold, and likely to throw another clot, and stoke out regardless.

Hospitalizations are similar. Getting covid, certainly doesn't help, but isn't the primary reason for a lot of the ICU cases. The body can only handle so much trauma. It can handle very little, if you are in poor health to begin with. There are literally millions of people walking around, who would have died years ago, if it was for miracle, maintenance medications. The manage the symptoms, with a fistful of pills everyday, to just barely live a 'normal' life, long as they follow instructions closely. Any radical change in diet, medications, or activity, could kill them. Any infection, is one of those things they have little control. The vaccine for these people, doesn't help with their other medical problems, just gives them a slightly better chance at surviving a covid infection. We are all expected to vaccinated, so they have a slightly better chance of not getting infected. Antibodies are just a small part of the immune system. Not much help, if you don't have much of an immune system to make use of them. Vaccines won't instantly end a pandemic. They can help more people survive infection. The virus will continue to spread.
23-09-2021 05:50
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(9934)
keepit wrote:You're misinformed ibd.

Science is not misinformation. Stop being such a keepit.

keepit wrote: For example you said that "i will believe any bs random number that someone feeds you".

Did I write that or did someone else?

Well, OK, even though it was someone else, I'll say it too. You'll believe any WACKY schytt that you are told. What you will always question and doubt is common sense from people who are trying to help you.

keepit wrote: You say stuff like that and then claim you are a college professor.

I never claimed to be a lowly college professor who isn't good enough to be competitive in the real world. I'm actually good at what I do.

Why are you claiming that I am claiming to be a college professor?

keepit wrote: BTW, the covid moderna isn't a live vaccine.

I think it's a placebo.

keepit wrote:Also, you can get covid and not know you are sick and still spread it around.

That's because COVID is so mild that you probably won't even know that you have it, nor will any people to whom you might pass it.




A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
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