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Could space debris be a challenge for collecting data on climate change?


Could space debris be a challenge for collecting data on climate change?22-02-2021 15:45
TommyJ
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(6)
Until the first satellites entered low-Earth orbit in the middle of the 20th century, we knew almost nothing about the dynamics of climate change. Now humanity can monitor many changes on the planet thanks to images and other data received from satellites. In 1985, satellites discovered the ozone hole. This data helps to combat climate change.

Some satellites record signs of climate change: melting glaciers, rising sea levels and even rising CO2 levels in the atmosphere. Some satellites are capable of measuring the Earth's water surface with maximum accuracy. These data will help understand how global warming is affecting the world's oceans.

Artificial satellites play an important role in preventing natural disasters: hurricanes, earthquakes, tsunamis, forest fires.
Satellite data is especially useful for observing hurricane winds and preventing their consequences.
But there is also a downside.
There are more than 30,000 pieces of space debris in near-earth orbit. If this debris is not disposed of, it can negatively impact satellites, flying too close and preventing the collection of information that is necessary to combat climate change.
Scientists and space companies offer many options for cleaning the orbit from space debris. Space tug, Foam debris catcher, Lasers, etc.
Which method seems to you the most successful and realistic?
23-02-2021 21:48
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(9376)
TommyJ wrote: Until the first satellites entered low-Earth orbit in the middle of the 20th century, we knew almost nothing about the dynamics of climate change.

Nobody yet knows what the term even means. No human has ever unambiguously defined it. No two people can agree on it.

TommyJ wrote: Now humanity can monitor many changes on the planet thanks to images and other data received from satellites.

This is because the planet is defined unambiguously. Climate Change however, is nothing but religious theology that cannot be observed.

TommyJ wrote: In 1985, satellites discovered the ozone hole.

It took satellites to discover nighttime?

TommyJ wrote: But there is also a downside.

The completely undefined has neither upsides nor downsides.

TommyJ wrote: There are more than 30,000 pieces of space debris in near-earth orbit. If this debris is not disposed of, it can negatively impact satellites, flying too close and preventing the collection of information that is necessary to combat climate change.

Of all the hazards of space debris, you picked the harmless, imaginary one.

TommyJ wrote: Scientists and space companies offer many options for cleaning the orbit from space debris. Space tug, Foam debris catcher, Lasers, etc.
Which method seems to you the most successful and realistic?

There is only one viable option for space debris, I.e. let it burn up on reentry.

.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
25-02-2021 16:33
TommyJ
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(6)
As for the space debris problem: scientists believe that there are now 50 objects weighing more than 2 tons. Are you sure that it will have time to burn without touching the Earth?
The problem of small space debris is rather the safety of the ISS and other objects in orbit.
A small shard with tremendous acceleration can probably still be dangerous.
This week talked about 6 cracks on the ISS. It is uncritical. But...
As for the fact that no one yet knows what climate change is: here you have to agree. If there was a clear opinion on this, then there would be a clear program of what to do about it. Or there would be no programs and discussions in case no one considered it a problem.
25-02-2021 21:41
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(15689)
TommyJ wrote:
As for the space debris problem: scientists believe that there are now 50 objects weighing more than 2 tons. Are you sure that it will have time to burn without touching the Earth?

Stuff heavier than this has burned up entirely without ever reaching the surface.
TommyJ wrote:
The problem of small space debris is rather the safety of the ISS and other objects in orbit.

Not as big as you might think.
TommyJ wrote:
A small shard with tremendous acceleration can probably still be dangerous.

All the shards are generally moving in the same direction. Shards do not have acceleration, other than simply staying in orbit (acceleration causing a change of direction, induced by the force of gravity).
TommyJ wrote:
This week talked about 6 cracks on the ISS. It is uncritical. But...

Cracks develop by wear and tear, and by exposure to unfiltered sunlight.
TommyJ wrote:
As for the fact that no one yet knows what climate change is: here you have to agree. If there was a clear opinion on this, then there would be a clear program of what to do about it. Or there would be no programs and discussions in case no one considered it a problem.

The Church of Global Warming, which is constantly trying to specify 'solutions', still cannot define 'global warming' or 'climate change'.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
26-02-2021 11:28
TommyJ
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(6)
There is a "cascade effect" that in the medium term may result from mutual collisions and "space debris" particles. When extrapolating even the conditions of contamination of low Earth orbits (LEO), taking into account measures to reduce the number of orbital explosions (42% of all space debris) and other measures to reduce technological contamination, this effect can, in the long term, lead to a catastrophic increase in the number of orbital debris objects by LEO and, as a consequence, the practical impossibility of space exploration. It is assumed that "after 2055, the self-propagation of the remnants of space activities will become a serious problem."
28-02-2021 16:33
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(15689)
TommyJ wrote:
There is a "cascade effect" that in the medium term may result from mutual collisions and "space debris" particles. When extrapolating even the conditions of contamination of low Earth orbits (LEO), taking into account measures to reduce the number of orbital explosions (42% of all space debris) and other measures to reduce technological contamination, this effect can, in the long term, lead to a catastrophic increase in the number of orbital debris objects by LEO and, as a consequence, the practical impossibility of space exploration. It is assumed that "after 2055, the self-propagation of the remnants of space activities will become a serious problem."

No, no such assumption is made. There is no magick 'Cascade Effect'. The only thing preventing space travel is simply getting off the ground and into space.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
01-03-2021 21:52
TommyJ
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(6)
https://bigthink.com/paul-ratner/how-the-kessler-syndrome-can-end-all-space-exploration-and-destroy-modern-life

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_debris

https://www.spacelegalissues.com/space-law-the-kessler-syndrome/

These 3 sources, as well as many others, suggest that this effect is possible. Of course, when we are here and know little about what is happening in orbit, then we may not know about it. Or think that there is no problem. For people, this problem will begin to exist only when it prevents them from receiving services that depend on satellites.
03-03-2021 02:28
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(15689)
TommyJ wrote:
https://bigthink.com/paul-ratner/how-the-kessler-syndrome-can-end-all-space-exploration-and-destroy-modern-life

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_debris

https://www.spacelegalissues.com/space-law-the-kessler-syndrome/

These 3 sources, as well as many others, suggest that this effect is possible. Of course, when we are here and know little about what is happening in orbit, then we may not know about it. Or think that there is no problem. For people, this problem will begin to exist only when it prevents them from receiving services that depend on satellites.

False authority fallacies. Not especially that Wikipedia is discarded as a reference on sight. Too many articles are badly worded, incomplete, or just plain wrong.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
22-03-2021 15:21
Jacob114
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(6)
The problem of space debris is rather serious, and I think it should be solved as soon as possible. Although some people deny the importance of the cascade effect and Kessler syndrome, it wouldn't be given so much attention in the scientific community. I know that many space agencies work on spacecraft that will be able to de-orbit space debris or even destroy it. Moreover, even newly emerged companies consider it necessary to work on it. Did you see a space tug manufactured by https://www.skyrora.com/? I have never thought that this spacecraft can make our orbit clear.
22-03-2021 20:46
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(15689)
Jacob114 wrote:
The problem of space debris is rather serious,
[quote]Jacob114 wrote:
and I think it should be solved as soon as possible.
[quote]Jacob114 wrote:
Although some people deny the importance of the cascade effect and Kessler syndrome, it wouldn't be given so much attention in the scientific community. I know that many space agencies work on spacecraft that will be able to de-orbit space debris or even destroy it. Moreover, even newly emerged companies consider it necessary to work on it. Did you see a space tug manufactured by https://www.skyrora.com/? I have never thought that this spacecraft can make our orbit clear.


Spacecraft launched today are required to be able to shift into a quickly decaying orbit (some call it a graveyard orbit) at the end of it's lifespan.

Most satellites are sent into a lower Earth orbit, which naturally decays anyway, due to atmospheric drag. These include GPS and weather and communications satellites.

What is being failed to be considered here is that the so-called Kessler syndrome will wind up deorbiting much of the junk in and of itself.

F=mA.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
Edited on 22-03-2021 20:48
23-03-2021 04:28
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(9376)
Jacob114 wrote: The problem of space debris is rather serious,

It's important, not serious. The US government tracks all the space debris in orbit and NASA takes that input in planning its missions. There is no problem if the debris is monitored and simply avoided.

It's not "serious" if there is no problem.

Jacob114 wrote: ... and I think it should be solved as soon as possible.

The good news is that you are about four decades behind the power curve and this issue has long-since been addressed.

Problem solved.

Although some people hype fear of "the cascade effect" and "Kessler syndrome" in order to sound important and to generate artifical interest and click-bait, it isn't given so much attention in industry or the scientific community. Objects in LEO are simply avoided until they naturally burn up and no longer need to be tracked. The laissez-faire approach is simple, effective and free.



.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist




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