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22-03-2020 06:03
Amanbir GrewalProfile picture★☆☆☆☆
(113)
HarveyH55 wrote:
Just that people don't crowed the couch as much, schools are out, doesn't get shared as much.

Wonder if hospitals are packed, with ObamaCare patients.

Basically, they give out the shots, and people will figure it's safe to return to their normal lives.




and the homeless anger. you do something for me. you clean up that unit, with my guns, and you take a yacht through an empty lake into finland.

gangs are ugly. i do make-up here?



KNOWLEDGE and UNDERSTANDING about epidemics and control techniques is required today. Politicizing Already?

Volunteer ACTION GROUPS VAG work thru this time helping people, not brainwaves.


AUGUST COMTE AN EMPLOYED SOCIALIST BEFORE A PANEL OTHERWISE A SIMPLE PLANNER OF GUISES AND POTIONS
22-03-2020 06:04
James___
★★★★★
(2420)
IBdaMann wrote:
James___ wrote:It might be because the swine flu had a mortality rate of 0.02% and so far they say Covid19 has a 2% mortality rate. Basically they say it kills 100 times more people.

coronahoax hasn't killed anyone. Every death attributed to coronaflu was actually caused by something else, e.g. cancer, heart disease, etc... in a person who happened to also have the coronaflu.

The number should be zero.



.



The basic problem is that people and businesses cannot afford to be idle for a month because of no savings. With pandemics, worse could happen. Would it really hurt people if they had to take it easy and hang out with their friends for a while?
Or would people get bored if they only had about a dozen friends to hang with? Hell, they could go golfing even. That's too difficult. Kind of why many people die when they retire. Work is their life.
And what people will not want to consider is when will the next pandemic happen? I mean for me, I'm handicapped so it doesn't change anything for me.
22-03-2020 06:14
James___
★★★★★
(2420)
Just read this. We'll have to wait and see.

https://www.businessinsider.com/top-nyc-surgeon-warns-coronavirus-cases-could-overwhelm-system-2020-3
22-03-2020 16:27
HarveyH55
★★★★☆
(1743)
The vast majority of jobs, don't involve sitting at a desk. Democrats don't seem to understand that, since they prefer jobs that don't involve getting their hands dirty. A lot of people live well beyond their income, and carry a lot of debt. These people have little income left every month to save, after paying their bills. They have mortgage or rent payments, for more home, than they really could afford. A car payment, for something that was new and fancy, trendy. Credit card payments, for their Iphone, and service, big TV, and cable service, high speed internet, and many other things. Those bills won't go away, and most can't pay them, if they aren't working.

People not working, means fewer products and services, which tends to drive up prices on many things in demand. It's only going to be a few weeks, before the robbing, looting, and killing start to get out of hand. The jails will be full, and little interest in arresting more people.
23-03-2020 16:39
gfm7175Profile picture★★★☆☆
(424)
HarveyH55 wrote:
The vast majority of jobs, don't involve sitting at a desk. Democrats don't seem to understand that, since they prefer jobs that don't involve getting their hands dirty. A lot of people live well beyond their income, and carry a lot of debt. These people have little income left every month to save, after paying their bills. They have mortgage or rent payments, for more home, than they really could afford. A car payment, for something that was new and fancy, trendy. Credit card payments, for their Iphone, and service, big TV, and cable service, high speed internet, and many other things. Those bills won't go away, and most can't pay them, if they aren't working.

People not working, means fewer products and services, which tends to drive up prices on many things in demand. It's only going to be a few weeks, before the robbing, looting, and killing start to get out of hand. The jails will be full, and little interest in arresting more people.

You are correct Harvey. Democrats do love to overlook "flyover country" and all that those States contribute to keep the country going.

I am one of the people who does things the "correct way" in terms of spending, meaning that I do not spend beyond my means and I continually set aside money and save it for emergencies such as we are living through right now. My belief in Christianity also leads me to not desire the "latest and greatest" "things of this world" (meaning that I am content with the earthly possessions that I have been blessed with rather than deficit-spending my way to "bigger and better" earthly possessions). I realize that those things will all fade away, like any other thing on this Earth, so I choose to store up my treasures in heaven instead.

But, aside from my religious belief, I am really thankful that I still have a job amidst the current economic climate and can still earn wages, as there are a lot of people right now who are temporarily out of work and have nothing coming in. Prices of numerous things are going to increase (supply/demand, inflation, etc.), but I look to enjoy the crashing gas prices while that lasts. They've already come down about $0.70 or so where I live (are now at $1.65/gal, and are going down each day)
23-03-2020 17:33
gfm7175Profile picture★★★☆☆
(424)
Scratch that. Evers just announced that all "non-essential" businesses are being ordered to close as of tomorrow, and the business that I work for would fall under that category.
23-03-2020 22:59
HarveyH55
★★★★☆
(1743)
If something still performs the intended function (car, computer, TV...), I just keep using it. My computer is about 15 years old, had to fix it a couple of times. It's barely useful though, Windows Vista, is no longer supported. Browsers, and a few other things won't update, and some websites won't load, because of security issues, from using outdated browsers. Still use dial-up internet, don't really do high-speed stuff online. I'll fix most anything, until the cost of parts, is over half the cost of buying something new. I'll still buy the used, if possible, and feasible though. Sort of tested, and broken in...

I'm completely debt free. Own my house free and clear. Pay cash for vehicles, no credit cards, or credit of any form. My credit score probably is about as low as they go, but don't have to worry about identity theft, or somebody getting a loan or credit in my name. I don't use a cell phone, cable TV, or anything like that. Just pay for the things I need, and actually use. I do like tech toys though, but pay cash, and don't buy more than I realistically need.

I think my job will be alright through all this. It's a huge grocery distribution warehouse. We service mostly convenience stores. This virus has had a strange increase in cigarette sales, business almost doubled these past two weeks. Seems like smoking, would be the last thing on the list, when looking at a potentially serious respiratory infection...
23-03-2020 23:05
gfm7175Profile picture★★★☆☆
(424)
gfm7175 wrote:
Scratch that. Evers just announced that all "non-essential" businesses are being ordered to close as of tomorrow, and the business that I work for would fall under that category.

However, in yet another turn of events, it's now sounding like I will be allowed to go to work all the same, since I am considered an "essential employee" within the business.

Strange times we're living in...
23-03-2020 23:14
gfm7175Profile picture★★★☆☆
(424)
HarveyH55 wrote:
If something still performs the intended function (car, computer, TV...), I just keep using it. My computer is about 15 years old, had to fix it a couple of times. It's barely useful though, Windows Vista, is no longer supported. Browsers, and a few other things won't update, and some websites won't load, because of security issues, from using outdated browsers. Still use dial-up internet, don't really do high-speed stuff online. I'll fix most anything, until the cost of parts, is over half the cost of buying something new. I'll still buy the used, if possible, and feasible though. Sort of tested, and broken in...

I'm completely debt free. Own my house free and clear. Pay cash for vehicles, no credit cards, or credit of any form. My credit score probably is about as low as they go, but don't have to worry about identity theft, or somebody getting a loan or credit in my name. I don't use a cell phone, cable TV, or anything like that. Just pay for the things I need, and actually use. I do like tech toys though, but pay cash, and don't buy more than I realistically need.

I think my job will be alright through all this. It's a huge grocery distribution warehouse. We service mostly convenience stores. This virus has had a strange increase in cigarette sales, business almost doubled these past two weeks. Seems like smoking, would be the last thing on the list, when looking at a potentially serious respiratory infection...

Wow, you're even more "old-school" than I am haha... Way to be man! And yeah, apparently people still want their smokes... That bad choice to **** up their bodies is on them.
24-03-2020 00:03
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(11753)
HarveyH55 wrote:
If something still performs the intended function (car, computer, TV...), I just keep using it. My computer is about 15 years old, had to fix it a couple of times. It's barely useful though, Windows Vista, is no longer supported. Browsers, and a few other things won't update, and some websites won't load, because of security issues, from using outdated browsers. Still use dial-up internet, don't really do high-speed stuff online. I'll fix most anything, until the cost of parts, is over half the cost of buying something new. I'll still buy the used, if possible, and feasible though. Sort of tested, and broken in...

I'm completely debt free. Own my house free and clear. Pay cash for vehicles, no credit cards, or credit of any form. My credit score probably is about as low as they go, but don't have to worry about identity theft, or somebody getting a loan or credit in my name. I don't use a cell phone, cable TV, or anything like that. Just pay for the things I need, and actually use. I do like tech toys though, but pay cash, and don't buy more than I realistically need.

I think my job will be alright through all this. It's a huge grocery distribution warehouse. We service mostly convenience stores. This virus has had a strange increase in cigarette sales, business almost doubled these past two weeks. Seems like smoking, would be the last thing on the list, when looking at a potentially serious respiratory infection...

Ironic, isn't it?


The Parrot Killer
24-03-2020 02:46
keepit
★★★★☆
(1220)
Harvey,
That sounds like a great way to manage your finances. Too bad the us hasn't been doing the same for years. I spent and spent and then refinanced.
Then i realized that climate change couldn't be defeated by windmills and solar panels. Reduced spending is the way to reduce carbon emissions. It sure feels better not to run out of money all the time.
Edited on 24-03-2020 02:47
24-03-2020 04:02
James___
★★★★★
(2420)
keepit wrote:
Harvey,
That sounds like a great way to manage your finances. Too bad the us hasn't been doing the same for years. I spent and spent and then refinanced.
Then i realized that climate change couldn't be defeated by windmills and solar panels. Reduced spending is the way to reduce carbon emissions. It sure feels better not to run out of money all the time.



My grandmother lived that way. She was a hillbilly and grew a lot of her own food. Also raised chickens for dinner and eggs. You need to remember though that the technology that Harvey likes doesn't come from his lifestyle. He buys it from people who do not live like he does. Kind of a contradiction.
24-03-2020 04:23
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(11753)
keepit wrote:
Harvey,
That sounds like a great way to manage your finances. Too bad the us hasn't been doing the same for years. I spent and spent and then refinanced.
Then i realized that climate change couldn't be defeated by windmills and solar panels. Reduced spending is the way to reduce carbon emissions. It sure feels better not to run out of money all the time.


Define 'climate change'.

CO2 is not capable of warming the Earth.


The Parrot Killer
24-03-2020 04:28
James___
★★★★★
(2420)
Into the Night wrote:
keepit wrote:
Harvey,
That sounds like a great way to manage your finances. Too bad the us hasn't been doing the same for years. I spent and spent and then refinanced.
Then i realized that climate change couldn't be defeated by windmills and solar panels. Reduced spending is the way to reduce carbon emissions. It sure feels better not to run out of money all the time.


Define 'climate change'.

CO2 is not capable of warming the Earth.



Yep, Wake used to say that it cooled the Earth as well. Principally because it reduced the amount of kinetic energy released by other molecules during a collision.
24-03-2020 21:03
HarveyH55
★★★★☆
(1743)
keepit wrote:
Harvey,
That sounds like a great way to manage your finances. Too bad the us hasn't been doing the same for years. I spent and spent and then refinanced.
Then i realized that climate change couldn't be defeated by windmills and solar panels. Reduced spending is the way to reduce carbon emissions. It sure feels better not to run out of money all the time.


Climate Change, is a cult, sort of a doomsday cult, since they want to destroy modern life, and kill a lot of people. None of the apocalyptic prophecies have come true, and don't really appear to going to happen anytime soon. All you have to go on, is your belief in their hockey-stick graphs, charts, and computer modes, which only have the value of your faith.

I do enjoy living in the modern world, and all the technology. I just pay for what I need, and actually use. Make no sense to me, to pay $100+ a month for cable TV, when I seldom watch TV. Antenna TV is even more than I need or use, but it's free, so no big deal. The TV is on, but I'm always doing other things. Might watch a few minutes here and there, but don't really sit through an entire show.

Never owned a brand new car. I don't figure on living in it. If you are really careful, take care of it like your first born child, it might be worth a third of what you paid for it, if you can find someone will to pay that much, for a 5 year old car. It's transportation, I'll drive anything. When it dies on me, and not worth repairing, I'll buy something else. I don't worry about scratches, dents, maintenance schedules. I don't pay full coverage insurance, or worry somebody wants to steal it.

Yeah, I'm sort of cheap, but mostly, I just want good value, out of the money I spend. I bought my house, mostly, because a mortgage payment, wasn't much different than rent. Once, payed off, it had value, and only a yearly property tax payment, from then on. Great value, no more large monthly bill, and get some cash back if I decide to move. Renting, you always have that monthly bill, and that money is gone.

It's not that I'm old tech, it's that I don't need the newest, and fastest gadgets, when the stuff I already own, still get the job done well enough. I do play with a lot of electronic toys, even build a few myself.
25-03-2020 21:19
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(2520)
Into the Night wrote:
The virus isn't spreading. Only 0.000135% of the world is infected.
So I guess Trump is an idiot for going along with this whole process?

Normally 500,000 people die of the flue each year (actually 200,000-600,000).

Italy, with 6,000,000 people has roughly 1/1000 of the worlds population and 7500 people have died of Covid19 in just the last few weeks.

Do the math on that ITN.

That would be 7.5 million dead (in a few weeks mind you).
25-03-2020 22:29
gfm7175Profile picture★★★☆☆
(424)
tmiddles wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
The virus isn't spreading. Only 0.000135% of the world is infected.
So I guess Trump is an idiot for going along with this whole process?

Trump hasn't shut anything down. State governors (such as the moron in my State of Wisconsin) have been doing that. Thankfully, I am an "essential employee" so I can continue working through this whole ordeal. A secondary thankfully, my main hobby is hiking/photography, which I am still able to do under the governor's order.

tmiddles wrote:
Normally 500,000 people die of the flue each year (actually 200,000-600,000).

People die of the flu, not the flue. A flue is a duct within a chimney that smoke travels through. A flu is a viral respiratory illness (such as COVID-19).

tmiddles wrote:
Italy, with 6,000,000 people has roughly 1/1000 of the worlds population and 7500 people have died of Covid19 in just the last few weeks.

Not everybody is Italy. Not everybody has the shitty government run healthcare that Italy has... not everybody has as aged of a population as Italy has... not everybody has as much of a smoker population as Italy has... not everybody has a population full of people with underlying health issues like Italy has...

tmiddles wrote:
Do the math on that ITN.

That would be 7.5 million dead (in a few weeks mind you).

See above.
Edited on 25-03-2020 22:32
25-03-2020 22:56
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(11753)
tmiddles wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
The virus isn't spreading. Only 0.000135% of the world is infected.
So I guess Trump is an idiot for going along with this whole process?

He isn't.
tmiddles wrote:
Normally 500,000 people die of the flue each year (actually 200,000-600,000).

Italy, with 6,000,000 people has roughly 1/1000 of the worlds population and 7500 people have died of Covid19 in just the last few weeks.

Do the math on that ITN.

That would be 7.5 million dead (in a few weeks mind you).

Math error. Attempt to use random number as data. Argument from randU fallacy.


The Parrot Killer
Edited on 25-03-2020 22:58
26-03-2020 00:41
James___
★★★★★
(2420)
It seems that in the last week that numbers have really taken off in the US. The next 2 weeks should be interesting to see if the numbers keep going up so quickly.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/cases-in-us.html

https://photos.app.goo.gl/QLrQxETgJJGxkik28
Attached image:

26-03-2020 01:36
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(11753)
James___ wrote:
It seems that in the last week that numbers have really taken off in the US. The next 2 weeks should be interesting to see if the numbers keep going up so quickly.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/cases-in-us.html

https://photos.app.goo.gl/QLrQxETgJJGxkik28


They probably will. This is the result of better availability of testing, not necessarily increased actual infections.


The Parrot Killer
26-03-2020 02:26
keepit
★★★★☆
(1220)
The increase in the number of deaths is more telling. It doesn't get confused with the issue of testing.
26-03-2020 02:33
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(2520)
gfm7175 wrote:...Not everybody has the shitty government run healthcare that Italy has...
I assume you are implying that the Italian Heathcare system is inferior to the U.S. one?

Infant mortality:
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2091rank.html

170 UNITED STATES 5.80
...
210 ITALY 3.30


How does the US healthcare system comare?:
https://international.commonwealthfund.org/stats/mortality_amendable/

" Amenable Mortality"

United States 112
...
Italy 75

keepit wrote:
The increase in the number of deaths is more telling. It doesn't get confused with the issue of testing.
Yeah I think that's the only usable number.
Edited on 26-03-2020 02:36
26-03-2020 02:36
HarveyH55
★★★★☆
(1743)
The numbers are of little actual value. The virus was out spreading around the world since at least December 2019. Cold and flu season, which are the exact same symptoms of Covid-19. Very few people, knew, or even cared, just a seasonal cold, like every year. Mid February 2020, is when the Chinese sent out the alert, shutdown air travel. Testing, has been highly selective, do to the few available test kits. Most of the test kits were used on people, diagnosed with a high fever, or know to have been in contact with a confirmed case. Of course, there were many kits used on the rich and elite, who had the sniffles, or saw someone cough or sneeze, in their grand presence... The vast majority of people infected, over the past 3-4 months, just had a common cold, for all they knew, or anyone else, since they never got tested, got over it, like any other common cold. More test kits are becoming available, and a wider group of people being tested. The total confirmed cases will continue at the same rapid pace, as the test kit processing.

If we look at totals, of all people dying of complications from respiratory infections, before Covid-19, and this cold and flu season, we probably wouldn't see a huge increase. The same group of people, are always at risk, and many die every year. The health agencies always overhype, and want people to practice an abundance of caution, to protect this high-risk group. The media and politicians either over bought the hype, or saw an operatunity to profit off this new cold virus. After causing a huge panic, nobody is going to admit it was all over just a new addition, to the seasonal cold and flu family. It's still profitable, but mostly, who would trust the health agency warnings in the future. Many people don't trust the media, or politicians, over that Climate Change crap, and many other things. True, in the beginning, they didn't know it was just a cold virus, and needed to be watch closely. But they should have, at some point realized it wasn't pure evil, and stepped down a little, before the whole world start hoarding toilet paper.
26-03-2020 02:43
keepit
★★★★☆
(1220)
Harvey,
I stopped reading your long post when you said that the common cold and the covid have the sme symptom. Come on now. Do you know any one who has died of a cold?
26-03-2020 02:52
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(2520)
HarveyH55 wrote:
If we look at totals, of all people dying of complications from respiratory infections, before Covid-19, and this cold and flu season, we probably wouldn't see a huge increase.


So you think this is all a hoax? What's your theory on why governments are shutting things down?

Here's a study pre-covid19
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1201971219303285

It shows 25,000 flu death in Italy a few years ago. That would be say 4000 a month if they only happened half the year.

Italy reported 683 covid19 deaths yesterday.

So? You think they are lying? You need "raw data"? What?
Edited on 26-03-2020 02:52
26-03-2020 03:33
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(6253)
tmiddles wrote: So you think this is all a hoax? What's your theory on why governments are shutting things down?

This is where you cry "conspiracy theorist" when predictable political dishonesty is displayed.

Yes, the coronahoax is a hoax. This shutting down of the economy is the only hope the Democrats and the Deep State have to malign Trump. The hoax impeachment didn't work. The hoax of Russian colluuuuuuuuuusion didn't work. Democrats have until November. This will undoubtedly not be the final hoax.

tmiddles wrote: So? You think they are lying? You need "raw data"? What?

Yes, they are lying and I want the raw data.

I'm not buying these "deaths by coronaflu." All the deaths attributed to coronaflu are actually due to something else, e.g. heart failure, cancer, old age (natural causes), poison, etc... where the deceased had the flu at or sometime prior to the time of death and as a planet we have decided to financially reward doctors and hospitals for every death classified as "by COVID-19".

I do not trust ANY data on this matter. I will not participate in the hoax AND more importantly, I am not gullible and I will not be fooled.

OK ... now you can jump in with your 35)a ... and your raw data.


.


Sea level varies from place to place in the world - keepit

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
26-03-2020 03:52
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(2520)
IBdaMann wrote:
This is where you cry "conspiracy theorist"
No this is where I'm asking what is your argument or do you not have one.

Just like in your debunking here:
Misuse of the 1st LTD, Plancks Law/SB Law, and glaring hypocrisy of "Valid Data" exposed:
https://www.climate-debate.com/forum/venus-is-hotter-than-mercury--d6-e2710-s720.php#post_53762
15 days with no reply
Here:
Debating "photons of the lower temperature object are not absorbed by the higher temperature object." and that the a light bulb absorbs the radiance from an oven, IBD claims "go ahead ... I'm ready to debate it.":
https://www.climate-debate.com/forum/the-radiative-greenhouse-effect-does-not-exist-d10-e3047-s40.php#post_53357
22 days with no reply
And Here:
2nd Law and disproving IBD's confusion about Earth being a isolated system:
https://www.climate-debate.com/forum/2nd-law-d6-e3030-s80.php#post_53063
28 days with no reply

IBdaMann wrote:Yes, the coronahoax is a hoax.
So your argument is to just say it? Nothing to support that truly amazing premise? Are you saying that there are not over 600 deaths due to Covid19 in Italy yesterday? They are in on this deep state thing? Try making an argument.

A 5 year old says "just cuz".

IBdaMann wrote:Yes, they are lying and I want the raw data.
So what exactly is the raw data on dead people in Italy? I mean does it get more raw than the government reporting it?

IBdaMann wrote:All the deaths attributed to coronaflu are actually due to something else
What a confident declarative statement! Based on what? I'm assuming you must have some of what you consider "raw data" to make a statement of fact like that.

I'm curious what you think the motive is for the Italian and Spanish governments to falsify thousands of deaths?


"Good tests kill flawed theories; we remain alive to guess again." - Karl Popper
ITN/IBD Fraud exposed:  The 2nd LTD add on claiming radiance from cooler bodies can't be absorbed Max Planck debunks, they can't explain:net-thermal-radiation-you-in-a-room-as-a-reference & Proof: no data is valid for IBD or ITN
Edited on 26-03-2020 04:15
26-03-2020 05:04
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(6253)
tmiddles wrote: So your argument is to just say it?

No. I am not buying your argument. I'm not seeing any raw data supporting your claim.

tmiddles wrote: Are you saying that there are not over 600 deaths due to Covid19 in Italy yesterday?

My operating assumption, until I get all the raw data, is that there were 600 deaths in Italy yesterday due to abysmal medical capacity owing to Marxist socialized medicine ... and that those deaths were most likely caused by something other than COVID-19 ... but to spare embarrassment they were thumbscrewed into listing "cause of death" as COVID on as many as possible. If a patient died of heart failure but had recently had the flu, hey, list the cause of death as COVID-19 so that no one questions how we were ranked #2 for healthcare in all of the world by whatever socialist organization did the ranking.

... and you haven't provided any compelling data to counter this assumption.

So let me ask you ... why do you believe that a weak version of the flu is suddenly killing otherwise healthy adults?

Why should I not treat this hoax as the obvious hoax that it is? Do you have any non-tainted data, i.e. data that isn't the result of financial and political incentives to just jack up the numbers in support of the hoax?

By the way, I thoroughly understand why you want the hoax perpetuated. I do not share your desire.



.


Sea level varies from place to place in the world - keepit

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
26-03-2020 05:05
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(6253)
tmiddles wrote: So your argument is to just say it?

No. I am not buying your argument. I'm not seeing any raw data supporting your claim.

tmiddles wrote: Are you saying that there are not over 600 deaths due to Covid19 in Italy yesterday?

My operating assumption, until I get all the raw data, is that there were 600 deaths in Italy yesterday due to abysmal medical capacity owing to Marxist socialized medicine ... and that those deaths were most likely caused by something other than COVID-19 ... but to spare embarrassment they were thumbscrewed into listing "cause of death" as COVID on as many as possible. If a patient died of heart failure but had recently had the flu, hey, list the cause of death as COVID-19 so that no one questions how we were ranked #2 for healthcare in all of the world by whatever socialist organization did the ranking.

... and you haven't provided any compelling data to counter this assumption.

So let me ask you ... why do you believe that a weak version of the flu is suddenly killing otherwise healthy adults?

Why should I not treat this hoax as the obvious hoax that it is? Do you have any non-tainted data, i.e. data that isn't the result of financial and political incentives to just jack up the numbers in support of the hoax?

By the way, I thoroughly understand why you want the hoax perpetuated. I do not share your desire.



.


Sea level varies from place to place in the world - keepit

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
26-03-2020 05:15
James___
★★★★★
(2420)
tmiddles wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
If we look at totals, of all people dying of complications from respiratory infections, before Covid-19, and this cold and flu season, we probably wouldn't see a huge increase.


So you think this is all a hoax? What's your theory on why governments are shutting things down?

Here's a study pre-covid19
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1201971219303285

It shows 25,000 flu death in Italy a few years ago. That would be say 4000 a month if they only happened half the year.

Italy reported 683 covid19 deaths yesterday.

So? You think they are lying? You need "raw data"? What?



This is from 03/25. They said there have been 1,0310 Covid 19 deaths in the US. And considering people are avoiding each other and it's still getting worse....
https://www.yahoo.com/gma/coronavirus-live-updates-senators-white-house-clinch-deal-065500948--abc-news-topstories.html

Maybe after this they'll have people stock pile N95 masks and latex gloves?
26-03-2020 05:25
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(11753)
keepit wrote:
The increase in the number of deaths is more telling. It doesn't get confused with the issue of testing.


Actually, it does. The cause of death is RELISTED as Covid-19 depending on whether tests reveal the presence of it's antibodies, and death was caused by breathing difficulties.


The Parrot Killer
26-03-2020 05:28
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(2520)
IBdaMann wrote:
... Do you have any non-tainted data, i.e. data that isn't the result of financial and political incentives to just jack up the numbers in support of the hoax?.
So what would that look like? A human doctor puts a cause of death down. Do you think the doctor is in on the hoax.

Again what is the motive for the Italian government?
A drastic reductuon in tax revenue inspire them?
All worth it to somehow embarrass Trump?

IBdaMann wrote:
... why do you believe that a weak version of the flu is suddenly killing otherwise healthy adults?
.
covid19 is much stronger that the flu is typically. I believe what I'm being told on this one because:
1 - there is no apparent motive to lie
2 - the science and tech on this is effective and long established. They can make a solid determination a patient died infested with a particular virus
3 - if there was a hoax thousands of doctors would be in a position to expose it and extremely powerful interests would want to see that happen
4- pandemics due to virus, like smallpox, are well documented in our history. Not only is the scenario being described not odd it is expected.

It would be as weird and baseless for you to claim an earthquake was a hoax.
Edited on 26-03-2020 05:36
26-03-2020 05:29
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(11753)
tmiddles wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:...Not everybody has the shitty government run healthcare that Italy has...
I assume you are implying that the Italian Heathcare system is inferior to the U.S. one?
...deleted strawman fallacy...

Yes. It is inferior. It has been for a long time.


The Parrot Killer
26-03-2020 05:31
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(11753)
keepit wrote:
Harvey,
I stopped reading your long post when you said that the common cold and the covid have the sme symptom. Come on now. Do you know any one who has died of a cold?


People die of colds too. It's rare, but it happens. Usually they die of flu, not the cold, and Covid-19 is no exception. Indeed, Covid-19 is killing less people than other flus that have come along.


The Parrot Killer
26-03-2020 05:33
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(11753)
tmiddles wrote:...deleted Mantra 29...TMSb4...25g...35a...


No argument presented. RQAA.


The Parrot Killer
26-03-2020 05:37
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(2520)
Into the Night wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:...Not everybody has the shitty government run healthcare that Italy has...
I assume you are implying that the Italian Heathcare system is inferior to the U.S. one?
...deleted strawman fallacy...

Yes. It is inferior. It has been for a long time.


So why do they have better numbers?

How did I present a strawman argument?

Into the Night wrote:
Covid-19 is killing less people than other flus that have come along.
you mean like 2017/2018 flu strains? Or in our long history? Like smallpox?
Edited on 26-03-2020 05:39
26-03-2020 06:29
James___
★★★★★
(2420)
tmiddles wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:...Not everybody has the shitty government run healthcare that Italy has...
I assume you are implying that the Italian Heathcare system is inferior to the U.S. one?
...deleted strawman fallacy...

Yes. It is inferior. It has been for a long time.


So why do they have better numbers?

How did I present a strawman argument?

Into the Night wrote:
Covid-19 is killing less people than other flus that have come along.
you mean like 2017/2018 flu strains? Or in our long history? Like smallpox?



President Trump said it's a Democrat hoax. That's all we need to know about it.

https://www.businessinsider.com/five-times-the-trump-administration-downplayed-the-coronavirus-2020-3
26-03-2020 07:43
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(11753)
tmiddles wrote:...deleted Mantra 29...35a...29...29...29...10 (corona virus -> !flu)...20e2...32...29...32...35d...16c...16c..35b1...


No argument presented. RQAA.


The Parrot Killer
26-03-2020 07:44
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(11753)
tmiddles wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:...Not everybody has the shitty government run healthcare that Italy has...
I assume you are implying that the Italian Heathcare system is inferior to the U.S. one?
...deleted strawman fallacy...

Yes. It is inferior. It has been for a long time.


So why do they have better numbers?

How did I present a strawman argument?

Into the Night wrote:
Covid-19 is killing less people than other flus that have come along.
you mean like 2017/2018 flu strains? Or in our long history? Like smallpox?


Strawman fallacy.


The Parrot Killer
26-03-2020 08:20
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(2520)
Into the Night wrote:
Strawman fallacy.
What is?
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