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21-02-2021 21:53
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(9190)
James___ wrote: Back to the hydrogen atom, it's called the smallest because it has only 1 nuclei in its nucleus.

All molecules have one nucleus. That's why it's called the molecule's nucleus and not its nuclei.

James___ wrote: To say that only aspect of a hydrogen atom defines it is an insult in science.

You just pulled keepit's goalpost shift. Stay focused. We were discussing the atom's size, not its definition.

The atom's radius is the only measure of its size.

Don't be afraid to come to me with the hard stuff.

.
Attached image:

21-02-2021 22:12
James___
★★★★★
(4523)
IBdaMann wrote:
James___ wrote: Back to the hydrogen atom, it's called the smallest because it has only 1 nuclei in its nucleus.

All molecules have one nucleus. That's why it's called the molecule's nucleus and not its nuclei.

James___ wrote: To say that only aspect of a hydrogen atom defines it is an insult in science.

You just pulled keepit's goalpost shift. Stay focused. We were discussing the atom's size, not its definition.

The atom's radius is the only measure of its size.

Don't be afraid to come to me with the hard stuff.

.



son, nuclei refers to both neutrons and protons that form the nucleus of an atom. From a physics website
[url]In 1911, Ernest Rutherford discovered that at the core of every atom is a nucleus. Atomic nuclei consist of electrically positive protons and electrically neutral neutrons.
https://www.energy.gov/science/doe-explainsnuclei[/url]
Maybe I should have used "child speak" and said that hydrogen atoms have only 1 component in their nuclei? Am just not sure why you didn't know that grownups say nuclei. After all, if you have 2 hydrogen atoms then it is nuclei and not nucleus. It's plural.
And with helium, it has 4 components in its nucleus/nuclei. Feel better? If you were more familiar with physics I wouldn't need to use "child speak" son.
Still, for all intents and purposes, hydrogen is the smallest atom.
Edited on 21-02-2021 22:13
21-02-2021 22:16
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(9190)
HarveyH55 wrote: The periodic table was developed as a quick, handy reference for chemists, where all the most frequently needed information is on a simple chart.

Harvey, I totally groove on what you are saying ... except that there is a reason it is called the "Periodic Table of the Elements" and not the "Atomic Values Listing"

The periodic table is itself an amazing model of matter that coincidentally makes for a great look-up chart, but that is incidental. The fact that there are 18 items per row, identifying the left-hand column as volatile elements and the right-hand column as stable elements, and some items as groups, e.g. lanthanoids, actinoids, etc.. explains/guides users as to the bahavior of matter, over and above their respective numerical values. The periodic table provides such governance to chemists through shell configurations, melting and boiling points, oxidation states, ionization, etc., i.e. an entire host of characteristics that define behavior and not just static measurements and allow users to predict how matter will behave.

The periodic table is a model, not just a listing.

.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
21-02-2021 22:36
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(9190)
James___ wrote: son, nuclei refers to both neutrons and protons that form the nucleus of an atom.

Nope. The protons and neutrons that comprise the nucleus of a molecule are called "protons" and "neutrons" respectively.

When you have multiple molecules you then have multiple nuclei.

Don't be afraid to come to me with the hard stuff.

Oh, btw ... notice how you are about 18 picometers bigger when you are in hydrogen.

.
Attached image:

21-02-2021 23:09
James___
★★★★★
(4523)
IBdaMann wrote:
James___ wrote: son, nuclei refers to both neutrons and protons that form the nucleus of an atom.

Nope. The protons and neutrons that comprise the nucleus of a molecule are called "protons" and "neutrons" respectively.

When you have multiple molecules you then have multiple nuclei.

Don't be afraid to come to me with the hard stuff.

Oh, btw ... notice how you are about 18 picometers bigger when you are in hydrogen.

.



And yet beta radiation is a radioactive isotope of helium. If you don't get it, the nucleus of an atom could be composed of nuclei. ie., a general term for protons and neutrons can be nuclei. It's all a part of the composition and thus is what it is. Why when its strong force weakens or is weakened it would lose a part of its nuclei. But you haven't read anything like text books which get into nuclear physics, have you?
At the same time, it is considered that the hydrogen atom is the smallest. It's radius for the most part doesn't matter. It's just that it's composed of so little is why. Debating semantics is counterproductive.
Kind of why your friend the Ferengi compares my pursuit to "alchemy" when it's not. At least ITN understood that I am hoping to demonstrate a new theory in atmospheric chemistry and physics. It's just that I would be bring astrophysics into play.


p.s., what is the possessive tense of nucleus? Nuclei? It works for me. But good job on your web search son. Next, search beta radiation.

Edited on 21-02-2021 23:12
22-02-2021 00:00
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(9190)
James___ wrote: And yet beta radiation is a radioactive isotope of helium.

There is no beta radiation that is an isotope of any element.

James___ wrote: If you don't get it, the nucleus of an atom could be composed of nuclei. ie., a general term for protons and neutrons can be nuclei.

No. It cannot be and it cannot be.

James___ wrote: At the same time, it is considered that the hydrogen atom is the smallest.

Nope. The helium atom is the smallest. No other atom is somehow "considered" to be the smallest.

James___ wrote: It's radius for the most part doesn't matter.

Its radius is all that matters.

James___ wrote: It's just that it's composed of so little is why.

Size is not mass. Mass is not size. A ruggedized military power generator has not somehow become bigger than a bouncy castle since the last couple of posts.

James___ wrote:Debating semantics is counterproductive.

Semantics is all that can be debated. Do you know what semantic are?

James___ wrote: p.s., what is the possessive tense of nucleus?

There is no such thing as a possessive tense. There is a present progressive tense and a past perfect tense but no possessive tense.

There is a possessive pronoun and in the case of a nucleus that pronoun is "its."

Don't be afraid to come to me with the hard stuff.

.
Attached image:


Edited on 22-02-2021 00:02
22-02-2021 00:10
James___
★★★★★
(4523)
IBdaMann wrote:
James___ wrote: And yet beta radiation is a radioactive isotope of helium.

There is no beta radiation that is an isotope of any element.



OMG son, you can ask for salvation. Seriously though, 2He which is also known as 2/4He (2protons/4 ? in it's nucleus) is beta radiation. If you ever heard of the Incredible Hulk, he was affected by gamma radiation.
Gamma radiation is radioactive wave energy while beta radiation is radioactive particle radiation. If you want me to keep calling you son, you do need to know these basic differences in nuclear physics. Some will call it "atomic" physics, same thing.
It is all my fault son, I thought I had taught you better. I have to accept how I failed you in this way.

Edited on 22-02-2021 00:12
22-02-2021 00:16
keepit
★★★★★
(2235)
And yet one of the isotopes of He is a boson. I think it's He4
22-02-2021 00:34
James___
★★★★★
(4523)
keepit wrote:
And yet one of the isotopes of He is a boson. I think it's He4


I think this is where you're getting into particle physics. Boson's are are a group of particles that the Einstein-Bose Condensate Theorem quantifies (not familiar with particle physics? then the term predicts might be more to your liking?). Originally there were 6 types of such particles but the group has grown over time.
Are we sure that we want to get into theoretical physics? That's the area where bosons are considered to exist. I mean this discussion could get interesting. At the same time, particle physics might be best avoided.
Edited on 22-02-2021 00:36
22-02-2021 00:38
HarveyH55Profile picture★★★★★
(3400)
IBdaMann wrote:
James___ wrote: And yet beta radiation is a radioactive isotope of helium.

There is no beta radiation that is an isotope of any element.

James___ wrote: If you don't get it, the nucleus of an atom could be composed of nuclei. ie., a general term for protons and neutrons can be nuclei.

No. It cannot be and it cannot be.

James___ wrote: At the same time, it is considered that the hydrogen atom is the smallest.

Nope. The helium atom is the smallest. No other atom is somehow "considered" to be the smallest.

James___ wrote: It's radius for the most part doesn't matter.

Its radius is all that matters.

James___ wrote: It's just that it's composed of so little is why.

Size is not mass. Mass is not size. A ruggedized military power generator has not somehow become bigger than a bouncy castle since the last couple of posts.

James___ wrote:Debating semantics is counterproductive.

Semantics is all that can be debated. Do you know what semantic are?

James___ wrote: p.s., what is the possessive tense of nucleus?

There is no such thing as a possessive tense. There is a present progressive tense and a past perfect tense but no possessive tense.

There is a possessive pronoun and in the case of a nucleus that pronoun is "its."

Don't be afraid to come to me with the hard stuff.

.


Are you making fun of his Norwegian accent again? Lot of people living in America, never learn to speak proper English, let alone read or write. Sometimes have to make allowances...
22-02-2021 00:45
James___
★★★★★
(4523)
HarveyH55 wrote:

Are you making fun of his Norwegian accent again? Lot of people living in America, never learn to speak proper English, let alone read or write. Sometimes have to make allowances...


Because of who I am Harvey, I like this song. As for you, we're brothers of a sort.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZoJiTP5XZo
22-02-2021 01:42
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(9190)
HarveyH55 wrote: Are you making fun of his Norwegian accent again?

I'm just not sure how someone can be led to believe that the radiation emitted by an isotope ... is the isotope itself.

The isotope is not the radiation; the radiation is not the isotope.

.
Attached image:

22-02-2021 01:48
James___
★★★★★
(4523)
IBdaMann wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote: Are you making fun of his Norwegian accent again?

I'm just not sure how someone can be led to believe that the radiation emitted by an isotope ... is the isotope itself.

The isotope is not the radiation; the radiation is not the isotope.

.


son, this is sad.

I doubt this forum is the place to discuss nuclear physics and radioactive decay.
This is getting into death and what kills. We're not talking about cancer but about people. If you don't get it, things have taken a dark turn but not as in Alan Turing.
ie., The movie The Imitation Game. It's worth watching. I'm not gay but as a person, it helps to understand human nature.
Edited on 22-02-2021 01:55
22-02-2021 03:08
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(15559)
James___ wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
James___ wrote: The radius of the helium atom is smaller than the hydrogen atom if you consider the radius of the electron shell.

This is the only measure of an atom's SIZE.

Mass is the only measure of an atom's MASS.

Mass is not a measure of size. It's how the English language works. No one would ever say that this ruggedized military power generator is somehow bigger than a bouncy castle:







p.s. Guess which one has more mass.


.



The reason the hydrogen atom is considered as the smallest element is because it possesses the least amount of energy.

Atoms are not energy. The hydrogen atom is more reactive than the helium atom.
James___ wrote:
What allows it to be useful for hydrogen cells is that it easily gives up its electron when it forms a covalent bond with the oxygen element.

Because hydrogen is more reactive then helium.
James___ wrote:
To argue over the size of its shell

Atoms do not have 'shells'.
James___ wrote:
is going away from science

Buzzwords are not science, James.
James___ wrote:
and it becomes more political.

Chemistry is not political, James.
James___ wrote:
But then you, ITN, Harvey etc. like GFM said, what can we add to politplex to support the views that you guys have? This is why debating/discussing things in here might be a waste of time. It's just too political.

Already there.
James___ wrote:
An example is that while Trump is your guys God, Sen. McConnell said he is responsible for the capitol riots and should be prosecuted for his crimes as a civilian.

Trump is not God. Antifa and BLM and the Democrats are responsible for the capitol riots.
James___ wrote:
Back to the hydrogen atom, it's called the smallest because it has only 1 nuclei in its nucleus.

Hydrogen is not the smallest atom. Helium is. All atoms have only one nucleus. A nuclei is not in a nucleus. It is the plural of nucleus. Learn English.
James___ wrote:
To say that only aspect of a hydrogen atom defines it is an insult in science.

There is only one aspect that defines hydrogen...the number of protons in it's nucleus.

Science is not a thing that is 'insulted'. It is not possible to insult science. It has no emotion. It does not take offense.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
22-02-2021 03:09
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(15559)
keepit wrote:
itn,
"Shell" is just a figure of speech. They didn't teach you about figures of speech.
They were too busy rapping your knuckles about grammar


Semantics fallacy. There are no shells in atoms.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
22-02-2021 03:11
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(15559)
HarveyH55 wrote:
The periodic table was developed as a quick, handy reference for chemists, where all the most frequently needed information is on a simple chart. Works great, if you are mixing up magical elixirs, but really was never intended for philosophical debates.

Make your own chart, if you want different information handy, for your philosophical experiments. The periodic table works fine, for the purpose it was designed for.


So where on the periodic table do you find a bat claw, or a roasted earwig, or essence of nightshade picked in the light of the full moon?



The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
22-02-2021 03:11
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(15559)
keepit wrote:
James,
ibd has hurled so many insults that by now his insults are only an insult to his own personal quality.

Try English. It works better.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
22-02-2021 03:12
keepit
★★★★★
(2235)
Why deny figures of speech? They have a great deal of communication value.
22-02-2021 03:18
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(15559)
James___ wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
James___ wrote: Back to the hydrogen atom, it's called the smallest because it has only 1 nuclei in its nucleus.

All molecules have one nucleus. That's why it's called the molecule's nucleus and not its nuclei.

James___ wrote: To say that only aspect of a hydrogen atom defines it is an insult in science.

You just pulled keepit's goalpost shift. Stay focused. We were discussing the atom's size, not its definition.

The atom's radius is the only measure of its size.

Don't be afraid to come to me with the hard stuff.

.



son, nuclei refers to both neutrons and protons that form the nucleus of an atom. From a physics website
[url]In 1911, Ernest Rutherford discovered that at the core of every atom is a nucleus. Atomic nuclei consist of electrically positive protons and electrically neutral neutrons.
https://www.energy.gov/science/doe-explainsnuclei[/url]

Go read it again. An atom has only one nucleus.
James___ wrote:
Maybe I should have used "child speak" and said that hydrogen atoms have only 1 component in their nuclei?

Hydrogen may have neutrons. Such hydrogen atoms are known as 'heavy' hydrogen, or deuterium. It is still hydrogen. Deuterium is one of two stable isotopes of hydrogen.
James___ wrote:
Am just not sure why you didn't know that grownups say nuclei. After all, if you have 2 hydrogen atoms then it is nuclei and not nucleus. It's plural.
And with helium, it has 4 components in its nucleus/nuclei. Feel better? If you were more familiar with physics I wouldn't need to use "child speak" son.

Semantics fallacy.
James___ wrote:
Still, for all intents and purposes, hydrogen is the smallest atom.

Nope. Helium is.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
22-02-2021 03:35
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(15559)
James___ wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
James___ wrote: And yet beta radiation is a radioactive isotope of helium.

There is no beta radiation that is an isotope of any element.



OMG son, you can ask for salvation. Seriously though, 2He which is also known as 2/4He (2protons/4 ? in it's nucleus) is beta radiation.

Nope. Not beta radiation, not the cause of it.
Beta radiation is caused by a neutron decaying into a proton-electron pair, and the electron is ejected. When it happens to hydrogen, it becomes helium. The mass of the atom does not change.
James___ wrote:
If you ever heard of the Incredible Hulk, he was affected by gamma radiation.
Gamma radiation is radioactive wave energy while beta radiation is radioactive particle radiation.

Photons are both a particle and a wave. Gamma radiation is photons emitted from the decay of an electron-positron pair into two photon. It is high energy light, since the rest mass of the electron-positron pair is converted directly into energy.
James___ wrote:
If you want me to keep calling you son, you do need to know these basic differences in nuclear physics. Some will call it "atomic" physics, same thing.

No such thing. Quantum mechanics is not physics.
James___ wrote:
It is all my fault son, I thought I had taught you better. I have to accept how I failed you in this way.


You just keep digging your hole deeper, James.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
22-02-2021 03:35
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(15559)
keepit wrote:
And yet one of the isotopes of He is a boson. I think it's He4

An isotope is not a boson.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
22-02-2021 03:36
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(15559)
James___ wrote:
keepit wrote:
And yet one of the isotopes of He is a boson. I think it's He4


I think this is where you're getting into particle physics. Boson's are are a group of particles that the Einstein-Bose Condensate Theorem quantifies (not familiar with particle physics? then the term predicts might be more to your liking?). Originally there were 6 types of such particles but the group has grown over time.
Are we sure that we want to get into theoretical physics? That's the area where bosons are considered to exist. I mean this discussion could get interesting. At the same time, particle physics might be best avoided.


Especially by you. Buzzwords don't cut it,James.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
22-02-2021 03:39
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(15559)
James___ wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote: Are you making fun of his Norwegian accent again?

I'm just not sure how someone can be led to believe that the radiation emitted by an isotope ... is the isotope itself.

The isotope is not the radiation; the radiation is not the isotope.

.


son, this is sad.

I doubt this forum is the place to discuss nuclear physics and radioactive decay.

Then why did YOU bring it up????????
James___ wrote:
This is getting into death and what kills.

Pivot again.
James___ wrote:
We're not talking about cancer but about people.

and AGAIN.
James___ wrote:
If you don't get it, things have taken a dark turn but not as in Alan Turing.

and AGAIN.
James___ wrote:
ie., The movie The Imitation Game. It's worth watching. I'm not gay but as a person, it helps to understand human nature.

and AGAIN.


You change topics faster than you can post, James. You are randomly wandering.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
22-02-2021 03:40
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(15559)
keepit wrote:
Why deny figures of speech? They have a great deal of communication value.

Semantics fallacy. Void argument fallacy.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
22-02-2021 03:44
James___
★★★★★
(4523)
Into the Night wrote:
James___ wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote: Are you making fun of his Norwegian accent again?

I'm just not sure how someone can be led to believe that the radiation emitted by an isotope ... is the isotope itself.

The isotope is not the radiation; the radiation is not the isotope.

.


son, this is sad.

I doubt this forum is the place to discuss nuclear physics and radioactive decay.

Then why did YOU bring it up????????
James___ wrote:
This is getting into death and what kills.

Pivot again.
James___ wrote:
We're not talking about cancer but about people.

and AGAIN.
James___ wrote:
If you don't get it, things have taken a dark turn but not as in Alan Turing.

and AGAIN.
James___ wrote:
ie., The movie The Imitation Game. It's worth watching. I'm not gay but as a person, it helps to understand human nature.

and AGAIN.


You change topics faster than you can post, James. You are randomly wandering.


Because you are the parrot but not the master. The way to know the master is through his puppet which is you. You are but a step on the way to the master.
22-02-2021 03:51
keepit
★★★★★
(2235)
Google it itn. He4 is both an isotope and a boson. Helium has a few surprsiing characteristics especially at very cold temperature and under high pressure.
22-02-2021 04:08
James___
★★★★★
(4523)
keepit wrote:
Google it itn. He4 is both an isotope and a boson. Helium has a few surprising characteristics especially at very cold temperature and under high pressure.



The He4 that you're talking about might actually be 2/4He. 2 protons and electrons with 4 something in the middle. Yeah! (4 being the number of components in the nucleus)>
Science is rigid in this fashion. As an isotope it can be radioactive decay. Bosons have an intrinsic quality that is expressed in physics.
Bosons can be cooled relative to a specific process. This has to do with the Einstein-Bose Condensate Theorem. Why originally only 6 types of matter qualified.

That number grew as the types of matter that could be affected by such a theorem grew. This gets far more technical than what is discussed in this forum.
https://www.livescience.com/54667-bose-einstein-condensate.html
Edited on 22-02-2021 04:19
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