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CO2 level to cause harm


CO2 level to cause harm11-07-2020 03:48
duncan61
★★★☆☆
(467)
I am curious as to what concentration of CO2 becomes toxic to humans.I am seeing up to 1000ppm is no issue.Do we have enough stuff to burn to get anywhere near that level


duncan61
11-07-2020 17:11
HarveyH55
★★★★★
(2209)
duncan61 wrote:
I am curious as to what concentration of CO2 becomes toxic to humans.I am seeing up to 1000ppm is no issue.Do we have enough stuff to burn to get anywhere near that level


OSHA sets it a 1200 ppm for continual indoor levels on the job, with no need of assistive equipment. CO2 isn't really toxic, but it's heavier than O2, and tends to displace it. It's not the CO2 that kills you, it's the lack of O2.

Indoor levels can get up to 1000-1200 ppm pretty easy, if there is limited fresh air circulated in to the room/building, which is common these days. We tend to 'weatherseal', to save money on heat/cooling, keep out moisture, dust, and other environmental crap. I suppose the indoor 1200 ppm would get reached quicker, if the outside level is higher. Simple enough to fix.
11-07-2020 21:17
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13030)
duncan61 wrote:
I am curious as to what concentration of CO2 becomes toxic to humans.I am seeing up to 1000ppm is no issue.Do we have enough stuff to burn to get anywhere near that level


No. And here's why:

CO2 is not only broken down by plant life, it also dissolves in ocean water. A very small part of it may become carbonic acid for awhile, but usually it's just dissolved in ocean water. BTW, carbonic acid is also reversavle, forming dissolved CO2 again.

Both reactions reach a state of equilibrium when airborne CO2 is dissolved in water, and the water vents CO2 back into the air again; and when CO2 becomes carbonic acid and carbonic acid becomes CO2 again.

There is also a myriad of plants in the ocean water, including of course plankton, which are tiny plants using photosynthesis to obtain their energy.

Tiny as they are, the effect of these things is quite significant. Oceans cover 70% of the Earth's surface.

Industrial areas, where there are factories and cars spewing a lot of CO2 into the air, cover only about 1% of the Earth. To run these devices and factories requires fuel, and it costs money. Much of that fuel is from the result of CO2 and hydrogen reacting in the ground under tremendous heat and pressure in the presence of an iron catalyst, producing oil and methane.

So all you are seeing is CO2 recycling as part of the normal carbon cycle. Even much of the fuel we use comes from CO2, either converted into oil and methane by a Fischer-Tropsche reaction that naturally occurs underground, or by conversion to carbohydrates by plants.

Both oil and methane come oil wells, and methane is easily obtained from plant material...or you can burn the plants directly (such as wood and brush fires). Even paper and other burnable trash can be used to obtain energy. Such facilities have already been built to produce power.

No. We can't produce enough CO2. Normal carbon cycle, and the CO2 cycle with it, simply helps to make the fuel we burn, and is what keeps the Earth green.

Can it warm the Earth? Experiments have shown that if you quickly release CO2 from a pressurized tank into an area of lower pressure, such as the atmosphere, you get dry ice. Releasing it at a slower rate is really good at extinguishing fires. We also know that dissolving it in water to make soda water does not heat the water.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
Edited on 11-07-2020 21:28
11-07-2020 21:35
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7324)
duncan61 wrote: I am curious as to what concentration of CO2 becomes toxic to humans.

duncan, there are two HUGE problems with this statement of yours, i.e. you are operating under a huge misconception.

Problem 1: Redefinition of "Poison/Pollution". The definitions of "poison" and of "pollution" are independent of quantity because everything is fatal at some quantity ... and warmizombies use this fallacy to call CO2 a poison and pollution ... and rendering everything else as poison and pollution in the process. CO2 is only a poison if nitrogen is a poison, or pure water, or oxygen. When everything is poison and pollution then nothing is poison or pollution.

If I take a shotglass full of industrial waste goop and I dump it into Lake Tahoe, I have polluted Lake Tahoe. The police won't let me walk when I point out that I dumped "too little" for it to be pollution.

CO2 is not toxic to humans. You have a lot of it floating around in your body every moment of every day of your life.

Problem 2: The Red Herring. When you breathe in a gulp of air, it is essentially 20% oxygen and 80% nitrogen. What do you honestly believe would be the net effect if you were to breathe in a gulp of air that was 20% oxygen, 75% nitrogen and 5% CO2? Notice that we still have 20% oxygen. What do you think will happen?

Ergo, you should not be talking about CO2 from the false perspective that it somehow is a poison but instead be talking about the effects of breathing insufficient oxygen, whatever the cause, e.g. high altitude, CO2 displacement, etc...


.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
11-07-2020 23:01
duncan61
★★★☆☆
(467)
Thanks for the answers team.I looked at the CO2 cylinder in Bunnings yesterday and it is used in welding as a cooling agent a mix of argon and CO2 is also available.It was quite heavy and $39.98 so it is still on the shelf at Bunnings
11-07-2020 23:10
duncan61
★★★☆☆
(467)
I asked the question as my warmazombie friends at CCLA are hell bent on reducing CO2 as we are all going to die and I need to be able to ask why
11-07-2020 23:26
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7324)
duncan61 wrote: I asked the question as my warmazombie friends at CCLA are hell bent on reducing CO2 as we are all going to die and I need to be able to ask why

Right, and if atmospheric CO2 were sufficiently reduced then all life on the planet would die.

First the plants. Then the the animals that eat the plants. Then the animals and people that eat the animals that eat the plants.

All dead.

Why do your friends want this? Because they are evil Marxists who hate humanity and killing all life would certainly be an effective way to destroy capitalism.

.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
12-07-2020 02:55
duncan61
★★★☆☆
(467)
I have not even met them yet but have sat in on other state meetings.The zoom online meeting is Monday night.I feel at this point in time it is a glee club with the Evil CO2 as the bad guy and by having meetings and pestering the government it makes them feel good.I am not a fan of digging coal and using it to create steam to turn turbines to create power it seems so out of date but as we know the market dictates what works and what does not.I was involved in a project where the Aluminium refinery that is inline with the main power lines that run from Collie to Perth did a deal with the state government and Alinta gas and run the turbines at 50% and dump the extra power in to the grid.My role in all this was fitting the toilet and basin at the transfer station.The warmazombies think burning gas is bad as well the knob heads
12-07-2020 03:06
duncan61
★★★☆☆
(467)
Why do your friends want this? Because they are evil Marxists who hate humanity and killing all life would certainly be an effective way to destroy capitalism.

I have had a good think about this and its more than a little out there.I am sure they are just missguided do gooders and I hope to open thier minds then I woke up
12-07-2020 03:43
James___
★★★★★
(2996)
duncan61 wrote:
I have not even met them yet but have sat in on other state meetings.The zoom online meeting is Monday night.I feel at this point in time it is a glee club with the Evil CO2 as the bad guy and by having meetings and pestering the government it makes them feel good.I am not a fan of digging coal and using it to create steam to turn turbines to create power it seems so out of date but as we know the market dictates what works and what does not.I was involved in a project where the Aluminium refinery that is inline with the main power lines that run from Collie to Perth did a deal with the state government and Alinta gas and run the turbines at 50% and dump the extra power in to the grid.My role in all this was fitting the toilet and basin at the transfer station.The warmazombies think burning gas is bad as well the knob heads



By your definition I am a warmazombie and believe making a more efficient use of our resources is important. I also happen to like Star Trek so am an "evil" person, accepted. Still, I like Star Trek. Your minor temporal anomalies are interesting but irrelevant says the Vulcan. She's also hot. For a Vulcan that is. You know how they are. Only mate once every 7 years. Must drive Vulcan men to what they've become. Ü߀r intellectuals.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/2HAKvcWdjjCJXE7H9
Attached image:

12-07-2020 06:52
HarveyH55
★★★★★
(2209)
duncan61 wrote:
Why do your friends want this? Because they are evil Marxists who hate humanity and killing all life would certainly be an effective way to destroy capitalism.

I have had a good think about this and its more than a little out there.I am sure they are just missguided do gooders and I hope to open thier minds then I woke up


To me, CO2 is pretty important stuff, for a trace gas. Every living thing on the planet is made up of carbon-based molecules. Plants are the only living thing that actually gets carbon from the environment, not other living things. CO2, is that carbon source in the environment.

Plants need about 180 ppm, minimum, less and they are starving or dying. There is a lot of information on the ideal levels of CO2, which is around 800 ppm, although there doesn't seem to be an upper limit. Beyond 800 ppm, there is just little or no, noticeable benefit. OSHO believes 1200 ppm is a safe level to work in. Most all commercial indoor growing/greenhouses, augment their CO2. Their plants are healthier, grow faster, more productive, profitable. Lot of research online, and there is no question about the benefit.

The climate change people want to reduce the atmospheric CO2, to about half, which is obvious very close to starving plants. They screw it up, and they are going to kill off much of the plant life, not much of a buffer zone. On the other hand, if we double the CO2, plants get as much as the want and need. More productive crops, quicker, and less likely to fail. Plenty of food for everybody. Bears would have to knock over trashcans anymore.
12-07-2020 06:58
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7324)
HarveyH55 wrote:
To me, CO2 is pretty important stuff, for a trace gas. Every living thing on the planet is made up of carbon-based molecules. Plants are the only living thing that actually gets carbon from the environment, not other living things. CO2, is that carbon source in the environment.

Plants need about 180 ppm, minimum, less and they are starving or dying. There is a lot of information on the ideal levels of CO2, which is around 800 ppm, although there doesn't seem to be an upper limit. Beyond 800 ppm, there is just little or no, noticeable benefit. OSHO believes 1200 ppm is a safe level to work in. Most all commercial indoor growing/greenhouses, augment their CO2. Their plants are healthier, grow faster, more productive, profitable. Lot of research online, and there is no question about the benefit.

The climate change people want to reduce the atmospheric CO2, to about half, which is obvious very close to starving plants. They screw it up, and they are going to kill off much of the plant life, not much of a buffer zone. On the other hand, if we double the CO2, plants get as much as the want and need. More productive crops, quicker, and less likely to fail. Plenty of food for everybody. Bears would have to knock over trashcans anymore.


Great post.

.
Attached image:

12-07-2020 07:09
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7324)
James___ wrote: I also happen to like Star Trek so am an "evil" person, accepted. Still, I like Star Trek.

You used the wong Star Trek figure for this thread.

This is what you should have presented:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHUZCVl28lg&t=43s

.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
12-07-2020 20:44
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13030)
duncan61 wrote:
Thanks for the answers team.I looked at the CO2 cylinder in Bunnings yesterday and it is used in welding as a cooling agent a mix of argon and CO2 is also available.It was quite heavy and $39.98 so it is still on the shelf at Bunnings


In welding, CO2 is used to displace oxygen, which would weaken the weld. It does the same job as 'flux' in stick welding, but is better at it. It can be used for MIG or TIG welding.

Argon is mixed in for some types of welding, since CO2 can react with the hot metal, hardening it, when used by itself...although the effect is pretty minimal, since the weld covers such a small relative area. A lot depends on how the metal is cooled after welding as well.

The CO2 is released through a regulator, limiting the pressure to only 5psi or so. This is a pretty slow release of the contents of the tank, and could last for a long time (depending on the size of the tank). This is not enough to cool anything much. You don't want cold welds, after all.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
12-07-2020 20:48
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13030)
duncan61 wrote:
I asked the question as my warmazombie friends at CCLA are hell bent on reducing CO2 as we are all going to die and I need to be able to ask why


It's a question that comes up a lot. By asking the question, however, you have just identified yourself as a 'doubter'. Like any religion, they will try to 'save you' from your sins, before condemning to the pains of the devil (such as me).


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
12-07-2020 20:52
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13030)
IBdaMann wrote:
duncan61 wrote: I asked the question as my warmazombie friends at CCLA are hell bent on reducing CO2 as we are all going to die and I need to be able to ask why

Right, and if atmospheric CO2 were sufficiently reduced then all life on the planet would die.

First the plants. Then the the animals that eat the plants. Then the animals and people that eat the animals that eat the plants.

All dead.

Why do your friends want this? Because they are evil Marxists who hate humanity and killing all life would certainly be an effective way to destroy capitalism.

.


Fortunately, they do not have the power to remove or destroy all the CO2 on Earth.
Their message is, after all, designed to destroy capitalism and implement Marxism by oligarchy. The Church of Global Warming would, of course, be the state religion, should they succeed.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
12-07-2020 21:57
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13030)
duncan61 wrote:
I have not even met them yet but have sat in on other state meetings.The zoom online meeting is Monday night.I feel at this point in time it is a glee club with the Evil CO2 as the bad guy and by having meetings and pestering the government it makes them feel good.

Yes. It is the Holy Duty of the Church of Global Warming to destroy anything that burns carbon. All industry burns carbon...even nuclear power plants (they have vehicles and tractors that burn carbon).
duncan61 wrote:
I am not a fan of digging coal and using it to create steam to turn turbines to create power it seems so out of date but as we know the market dictates what works and what does not.

It is certainly not out of date. Coal is very cheap, While plants are closing in the UK and a few the United States, new plants are being built in India, Malaysia, China, and Indonesia. Much of the United States still uses coal, especially in the East and Midwest.

Coal is essentially pure carbon (with impurities of various kinds, depending on the quality of the coal). It is not known what creates coal seams, but we do know there is plenty of the stuff (hence the cheap price for it). It is easy to obtain, transport, and handle. It can also burn very cleanly, given a properly built plant.

duncan61 wrote:
I was involved in a project where the Aluminium refinery that is inline with the main power lines that run from Collie to Perth did a deal with the state government and Alinta gas and run the turbines at 50% and dump the extra power in to the grid.

Whatever works. They do this to lower their bill, of course, since aluminum smelting can take tremendous amounts of power.
duncan61 wrote:
My role in all this was fitting the toilet and basin at the transfer station.The warmazombies think burning gas is bad as well the knob heads

I assume you vented the methane to the roof appropriately, as required by code. The warmazombies never did understand sewer systems. Out of sight, out of mind, eh?


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
13-07-2020 01:53
duncan61
★★★☆☆
(467)
Wagerup aluminium refinery can run the plant on one gas turbine at 30 % so the deal involved Alinta gas supplying more gas and the state government bought the power of running both gas turbines at 50% when needed.great result all round
13-07-2020 22:08
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13030)
duncan61 wrote:
Wagerup aluminium refinery can run the plant on one gas turbine at 30 % so the deal involved Alinta gas supplying more gas and the state government bought the power of running both gas turbines at 50% when needed.great result all round


Sounds like it. They get the equipment when they need the power, a bit of extra coin in their pocket by selling power back, and everyone benefits with both cheaper aluminum and available power.

You know...a win/win situation, something the liberals say isn't possible.



The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
Edited on 13-07-2020 22:09




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