Remember me
▼ Content

Clouds



Page 2 of 2<12
18-09-2022 16:14
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(12584)
duncan61 wrote:I have been reading up on the work of Joseph Fourier.

duncan, what specifically are you reading?
19-09-2022 02:32
duncan61
★★★★★
(2003)
In 1827, Joseph Fourier, a French mathematician and physicist, wondered why Earth's average temperature is approximately 15°C (59°F). He reasoned that there must be some type of balance between the incoming energy and the outgoing energy to maintain this fairly constant temperature. His calculations indicated that Earth should actually be much colder (-18°C or 0°F).

To have an average temperature of 15°C (59°F), Fourier knew that there had to be another process occurring in the atmosphere –– something similar to the way a greenhouse retains heat. A greenhouse's glass enclosure allows visible light to enter and be absorbed by the plants and soil. The plants and soil then emit the absorbed heat energy as infrared radiation. The glass of the greenhouse then absorbs that infrared radiation, emitting some of it back into the greenhouse and thus keeping the greenhouse warm even when the temperature outside is lower.

Because the two processes are similar, the name "greenhouse effect" was coined to describe Fourier's explanation. However, part of a greenhouse's warmth results from the physical barrier of the glass, which prevents the warmer air from flowing outward. So despite the fact that the atmospheric greenhouse effect has some processes in common with an actual greenhouse, the overall mechanisms driving the greenhouse effect are different and more complex

Greenhouse Gases
You have already learned that Earth's atmosphere is composed primarily of nitrogen and oxygen. These gases are transparent to incoming solar radiation. They are also transparent to outgoing infrared radiation, which means that they do not absorb or emit solar or infrared radiation. However, there are other gases in Earth's atmosphere that do absorb infrared radiation. These gases are known as greenhouse gases. Below are the most important greenhouse gases that influence Earth's climate system.

Water vapor (H2O)

Water vapor (H2O) is the strongest greenhouse gas, and the concentration of this gas is largely controlled by the temperature of the atmosphere. As air becomes warmer, it can hold more moisture or water vapor. When the air becomes saturated (or holds as much moisture as the air can at that temperature), the excess moisture will condense into cloud droplets. And if these droplets are large enough, they will fall as precipitation.

Carbon dioxide (CO2)

Carbon dioxide (CO2) is also an important greenhouse gas. It has a long lifetime in Earth's atmosphere. Carbon dioxide strongly absorbs energy with a wavelength of 15 μm (micrometers). This makes carbon dioxide a good absorber of wavelengths falling in the infrared radiation region of the spectrum.

Carbon dioxide constantly moves into and out of the atmosphere through four major processes: photosynthesis, respiration, organic decomposition or decay, and combustion or the burning of organic material. You will learn more about carbon dioxide and the carbon cycle in Module 4.

Methane (CH4)

Methane (CH4) is 30 times stronger than carbon dioxide as an absorber of infrared radiation. Methane, however, is present in smaller concentrations than carbon dioxide, so its net contribution to the greenhouse effect is not as large. Methane is also relatively short-lived (lasting approximately 8 years) in the atmosphere. Methane is produced when bacteria decompose organic plant and animal matter in such places as wetlands (e.g., marshes, mudflats, flooded rice fields), sewage treatment plants, landfills, and the guts of cattle and termites. Scientists are concerned about the concentration of methane increasing in regions where the Arctic and alpine permafrost is thawing and releasing methane as it warms.

Halocarbons are composed of carbon, chlorine, fluorine, and hydrogen. They include chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs), which are man-made gases commonly used in refrigerators and air conditioners. Concentrations of CFC gases in the atmosphere are the highest of any of the halocarbons, and they can absorb more infrared radiation than any other greenhouse gas. The impact of 1 molecule of a CFC gas is equivalent to 10,000 molecules of carbon dioxide.

Nitrous oxide (N2O)

Nitrous oxide (N2O), a relatively long-lived gas, has increased in atmospheric concentration due mainly to agriculture. Nitrate (NO3-) and ammonia (NH4+) are used as fertilizers. Bacteria convert a small amount of this nitrate and ammonia into the form of nitrous oxide. Internal combustion engines also produce nitrous oxide.

Ozone (O3)

Ozone (O3) is also a relatively minor greenhouse gas because it is found in relatively low concentrations in the troposphere (the lowest layer of the atmosphere). In the troposphere, it is produced by a combination of pollutants — mostly hydrocarbons and nitrogen oxide compounds.

Greenhouse Gas Concentrations
John Tyndall
John Tyndall. - Image Credit: Wikipedia
In the 1860s, John Tyndall, an Irish scientist who was fascinated by the growth and formation of glaciers, wanted to test his ideas explaining how Earth maintained a fairly constant temperature. He began a series of experiments to measure the amount of radiant heat (infrared radiation) that certain gases could absorb and transmit. Tyndall found that water vapor and carbon dioxide were good absorbers and emitters of infrared radiation.

The relative importance of a greenhouse gas depends on its abundance in Earth's atmosphere and how much the gas can absorb specific wavelengths of energy.

An effective absorber of infrared radiation has a broader absorption profile, which means that it can absorb a wider spectrum of wavelengths. Water vapor and carbon dioxide can absorb radiation wavelengths in the range of 4 μm to 80 μm, except those between 8 μm and 12 μm. Ozone can absorb wavelengths between 9 μm and 10 μm, but as you have learned, it is found in low concentrations. The sun's ultraviolet wavelengths are strongly absorbed by ozone in the stratosphere.


How the Greenhouse Effect Works
The sun's visible wavelengths of radiation pass easily through the atmosphere and reach Earth. Approximately 51% of this sunlight is absorbed at Earth's surface by the land, water, and vegetation. Some of this energy is emitted back from the Earth's surface in the form of infrared radiation.

Water vapor, carbon dioxide, methane, and other trace gases in Earth's atmosphere absorb the longer wavelengths of outgoing infrared radiation from Earth's surface. These gases then emit the infrared radiation in all directions, both outward toward space and downward toward Earth. This process creates a second source of radiation to warm to surface – visible radiation from the sun and infrared radiation from the atmosphere – which causes Earth to be warmer than it otherwise would be. This process is known as the natural greenhouse effect and keeps Earth's average global temperature at approximately 15°C (59°F).

The Natural Greenhouse Effect
Use the buttons below to see an animation of the natural Greenhouse Effect
The Natural Greenhouse Effect - Stage 1
I. The sun's visible wavelengths of radiation pass easily through the atmosphere and reach Earth. Approximately 51% of this sunlight is absorbed at Earth's surface by the land, water, and vegetation.

Next

If the concentration of greenhouse gases increases, then more infrared radiation will be absorbed and emitted back toward Earth's surface, creating an enhanced or amplified Greenhouse Effect

Natural vs. Enhanced Greenhouse Effect
Certain human activities emit additional greenhouse gases to the atmosphere and increase the amount of heat that gets absorbed before escaping to space, thus enhancing the greenhouse effect and amplifying the warming of the earth.
When averaged over the course of a year, the amount of incoming solar radiation received from the sun has balanced the amount of outgoing energy emitted from Earth. This equilibrium is called Earth's energy or radiation balance. Relatively small changes in the amounts of greenhouse gases in Earth's atmosphere can greatly alter that balance between incoming and outgoing radiation. Earth then warms or cools in order to restore the radiative balance at the top of the atmosphere.
Edited on 19-09-2022 02:34
19-09-2022 02:35
duncan61
★★★★★
(2003)
There is no claim of amounts or climate issues.
19-09-2022 02:56
SwanProfile picture★★★★★
(2139)
duncan61 wrote:
In 1827, Joseph Fourier, a French mathematician and physicist, wondered why Earth's average temperature is approximately 15°C (59°F). He reasoned that there must be some type of balance between the incoming energy and the outgoing energy to maintain this fairly constant temperature. His calculations indicated that Earth should actually be much colder (-18°C or 0°F).

To have an average temperature of 15°C (59°F), Fourier knew that there had to be another process occurring in the atmosphere –– something similar to the way a greenhouse retains heat. A greenhouse's glass enclosure allows visible light to enter and be absorbed by the plants and soil. The plants and soil then emit the absorbed heat energy as infrared radiation. The glass of the greenhouse then absorbs that infrared radiation, emitting some of it back into the greenhouse and thus keeping the greenhouse warm even when the temperature outside is lower.

Because the two processes are similar, the name "greenhouse effect" was coined to describe Fourier's explanation. However, part of a greenhouse's warmth results from the physical barrier of the glass, which prevents the warmer air from flowing outward. So despite the fact that the atmospheric greenhouse effect has some processes in common with an actual greenhouse, the overall mechanisms driving the greenhouse effect are different and more complex

Greenhouse Gases
You have already learned that Earth's atmosphere is composed primarily of nitrogen and oxygen. These gases are transparent to incoming solar radiation. They are also transparent to outgoing infrared radiation, which means that they do not absorb or emit solar or infrared radiation. However, there are other gases in Earth's atmosphere that do absorb infrared radiation. These gases are known as greenhouse gases. Below are the most important greenhouse gases that influence Earth's climate system.

Water vapor (H2O)

Water vapor (H2O) is the strongest greenhouse gas, and the concentration of this gas is largely controlled by the temperature of the atmosphere. As air becomes warmer, it can hold more moisture or water vapor. When the air becomes saturated (or holds as much moisture as the air can at that temperature), the excess moisture will condense into cloud droplets. And if these droplets are large enough, they will fall as precipitation.

Carbon dioxide (CO2)

Carbon dioxide (CO2) is also an important greenhouse gas. It has a long lifetime in Earth's atmosphere. Carbon dioxide strongly absorbs energy with a wavelength of 15 μm (micrometers). This makes carbon dioxide a good absorber of wavelengths falling in the infrared radiation region of the spectrum.

Carbon dioxide constantly moves into and out of the atmosphere through four major processes: photosynthesis, respiration, organic decomposition or decay, and combustion or the burning of organic material. You will learn more about carbon dioxide and the carbon cycle in Module 4.

Methane (CH4)

Methane (CH4) is 30 times stronger than carbon dioxide as an absorber of infrared radiation. Methane, however, is present in smaller concentrations than carbon dioxide, so its net contribution to the greenhouse effect is not as large. Methane is also relatively short-lived (lasting approximately 8 years) in the atmosphere. Methane is produced when bacteria decompose organic plant and animal matter in such places as wetlands (e.g., marshes, mudflats, flooded rice fields), sewage treatment plants, landfills, and the guts of cattle and termites. Scientists are concerned about the concentration of methane increasing in regions where the Arctic and alpine permafrost is thawing and releasing methane as it warms.

Halocarbons are composed of carbon, chlorine, fluorine, and hydrogen. They include chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs), which are man-made gases commonly used in refrigerators and air conditioners. Concentrations of CFC gases in the atmosphere are the highest of any of the halocarbons, and they can absorb more infrared radiation than any other greenhouse gas. The impact of 1 molecule of a CFC gas is equivalent to 10,000 molecules of carbon dioxide.

Nitrous oxide (N2O)

Nitrous oxide (N2O), a relatively long-lived gas, has increased in atmospheric concentration due mainly to agriculture. Nitrate (NO3-) and ammonia (NH4+) are used as fertilizers. Bacteria convert a small amount of this nitrate and ammonia into the form of nitrous oxide. Internal combustion engines also produce nitrous oxide.

Ozone (O3)

Ozone (O3) is also a relatively minor greenhouse gas because it is found in relatively low concentrations in the troposphere (the lowest layer of the atmosphere). In the troposphere, it is produced by a combination of pollutants — mostly hydrocarbons and nitrogen oxide compounds.

Greenhouse Gas Concentrations
John Tyndall
John Tyndall. - Image Credit: Wikipedia
In the 1860s, John Tyndall, an Irish scientist who was fascinated by the growth and formation of glaciers, wanted to test his ideas explaining how Earth maintained a fairly constant temperature. He began a series of experiments to measure the amount of radiant heat (infrared radiation) that certain gases could absorb and transmit. Tyndall found that water vapor and carbon dioxide were good absorbers and emitters of infrared radiation.

The relative importance of a greenhouse gas depends on its abundance in Earth's atmosphere and how much the gas can absorb specific wavelengths of energy.

An effective absorber of infrared radiation has a broader absorption profile, which means that it can absorb a wider spectrum of wavelengths. Water vapor and carbon dioxide can absorb radiation wavelengths in the range of 4 μm to 80 μm, except those between 8 μm and 12 μm. Ozone can absorb wavelengths between 9 μm and 10 μm, but as you have learned, it is found in low concentrations. The sun's ultraviolet wavelengths are strongly absorbed by ozone in the stratosphere.


How the Greenhouse Effect Works
The sun's visible wavelengths of radiation pass easily through the atmosphere and reach Earth. Approximately 51% of this sunlight is absorbed at Earth's surface by the land, water, and vegetation. Some of this energy is emitted back from the Earth's surface in the form of infrared radiation.

Water vapor, carbon dioxide, methane, and other trace gases in Earth's atmosphere absorb the longer wavelengths of outgoing infrared radiation from Earth's surface. These gases then emit the infrared radiation in all directions, both outward toward space and downward toward Earth. This process creates a second source of radiation to warm to surface – visible radiation from the sun and infrared radiation from the atmosphere – which causes Earth to be warmer than it otherwise would be. This process is known as the natural greenhouse effect and keeps Earth's average global temperature at approximately 15°C (59°F).

The Natural Greenhouse Effect
Use the buttons below to see an animation of the natural Greenhouse Effect
The Natural Greenhouse Effect - Stage 1
I. The sun's visible wavelengths of radiation pass easily through the atmosphere and reach Earth. Approximately 51% of this sunlight is absorbed at Earth's surface by the land, water, and vegetation.

Next

If the concentration of greenhouse gases increases, then more infrared radiation will be absorbed and emitted back toward Earth's surface, creating an enhanced or amplified Greenhouse Effect

Natural vs. Enhanced Greenhouse Effect
Certain human activities emit additional greenhouse gases to the atmosphere and increase the amount of heat that gets absorbed before escaping to space, thus enhancing the greenhouse effect and amplifying the warming of the earth.
When averaged over the course of a year, the amount of incoming solar radiation received from the sun has balanced the amount of outgoing energy emitted from Earth. This equilibrium is called Earth's energy or radiation balance. Relatively small changes in the amounts of greenhouse gases in Earth's atmosphere can greatly alter that balance between incoming and outgoing radiation. Earth then warms or cools in order to restore the radiative balance at the top of the atmosphere.


Well there is another French moron. The average temp of the Earth includes the 134 degrees F and the minus 128 degrees F. Is the average temp in Antarctica 59 F? well no Frenchy was wrong, is the average temp of death valley 59F, well no. So the Earth has no average temp, but individual places do.

Never listen to a Frenchman who never was at Death Valley or Antarctica


This place is quieter than the FBI commenting on the chink bank account information on Hunter Xiden's laptop

I LOVE TRUMP BECAUSE HE PISSES OFF ALL THE PEOPLE THAT I CAN'T STAND.

ULTRA MAGA

Now be honest, was I correct or was I correct? LOL
19-09-2022 05:24
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(12584)
duncan61 wrote:In 1827, Joseph Fourier, a French mathematician and physicist, wondered why Earth's average temperature is approximately 15°C (59°F).

Once again you have turned to dishonesty and EVADED my question.

What are you reading? Title. Author. Website.

I notice that you did not dare ask how someone gets to what a dead person wondered because the last thing you ever want to do is to piss off people who are lying to you.

duncan61 wrote:He reasoned that there must be some type of balance between the incoming energy and the outgoing energy to maintain this fairly constant temperature. His calculations indicated that Earth should actually be much colder (-18°C or 0°F).

duncan, I am officially going to declare you stupid. You didn't even question this? You think this makes perfect sense? You have to be a total moron to fall for this. It comes with ALL the red flags and you didn't see any of them?

* Pretending to know what a dead person "reasoned."
* Pretending that said scientist considered physics violations to be thettled thienth
* Pretended that said dead scientist performed calculations that are still not possible
* Pretending that the earth being in equilibrium somehow requires something to "maintain that balance."

Yes, you are a moron. That is beyond question. If you ever wonder if you are really, truly stupid, just remember how you fell for this on a website that even warned you about it for over a year. Just hammer a couple bottles of wine and elevate your intelligence a bit.

duncan61 wrote:To have an average temperature of 15°C (59°F), Fourier knew that there had to be another process occurring in the atmosphere

I'm still laughing at this. You fell for the "what the dead guy knew" angle. Yes, yes, yes ... you are stupid. You never call booooolsch't when you should and you give the Heismann to everyone trying to help you.

Genius. Pure genius.

duncan61 wrote:–– something similar to the way a greenhouse retains heat.

You've got to be kidding me. You actually fell for the claim that Fourier believed that the atmosphere had to have been violating physics in the same manner as greenhouses? And you bought it? ... because this makes perfect sense to you? This doesn't even pass the smell test.

Too funny.

duncan61 wrote:Greenhouse Gases
You have already learned that Earth's atmosphere is composed primarily of nitrogen and oxygen. These gases are transparent to incoming solar radiation.

Since you insist on remaining stupid in science, you totally buy this, right? This is why you EVADED my question when I asked you about the temperature of a hypothetical oxygen-nitrogen cloud in orbit in close proximity to the sun. You believe that such a cloud would be hovering at, or around, absolute zero ... because you believe that such a cloud would be transparent to solar radiation ... because you are stupid in that way.

Too funny ... and gullible. Very gullible.

duncan61 wrote:They are also transparent to outgoing infrared radiation,

Is this where you get the idea that you are supposed to be dissecting the atmosphere? Is this where you believe that you need to focus on "incoming" and "outgoing" radiation when you already know that the earth is in an equilibrium? Don't you see how it's stupid what you are doing?

No, you don't see? I didn't think so. It would require you to be slightly more intelligent than a doorstop.

duncan61 wrote:Greenhouse Gas Concentrations
John Tyndall
In the 1860s, John Tyndall, an Irish scientist who was fascinated by the growth and formation of glaciers, wanted to test his ideas explaining how Earth maintained a fairly constant temperature.

None of John Tyndall's work in this area survived the scientific method and thus none remains within the body of science today.

He made errors. His work was discarded. Your manipulator is counting on you not knowing and not caring.

duncan61 wrote:He began a series of experiments to measure the amount of radiant heat (infrared radiation) that certain gases could absorb and transmit.

Well, would you explain this then?:

duncan61 wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
duncan61 wrote:There is no such thing as radiant heating,

Sure there is. It is the flow of thermal energy from one body of matter to another (heat) via electromagnetic radiation (radiant).

Heat does not radiate, but electromagnetic energy does.

You just make it up as you go don't you


duncan61 wrote: Tyndall found that water vapor and carbon dioxide were good absorbers and emitters of infrared radiation.

Did you ever wonder, even for a second, whether your manipulator was going to explain how this somehow translated into an increase in the average global temperature? You know, provide the science that you could share with others so that you wouldn't be simply believing what you were being ordered to believe without question?

duncan61 wrote:How the Greenhouse Effect Works
The sun's visible wavelengths of radiation pass easily through the atmosphere and reach Earth. Approximately 51% of this sunlight is absorbed at Earth's surface by the land, water, and vegetation. Some of this energy is emitted back from the Earth's surface in the form of infrared radiation.

duncan, do you see where I put the word "Some" in bold? Why is that word not "All" since the earth is in equilibrium? What does your manipulator say on the matter? Anything at all?

Aaaaah, but now we get to the egregious violation of the 1st law of thermodynamics, i.e. where energy is created out of nothing:

duncan61 wrote: These gases then emit the infrared radiation in all directions, both outward toward space and downward toward Earth. This process creates a second source of radiation to warm to surface


You gotta love it! The egregious violation is then masterfully crafted into that beautiful work of subjunctive art we all know and love:

duncan61 wrote: ... which causes Earth to be warmer than it otherwise would be.



duncan61 wrote:This process is known as the natural greenhouse effect and keeps Earth's average global temperature at approximately 15°C (59°F).

You know that the temperature of the earth cannot be measured to within any margin of error ... so why do you believe this? Oh, did you notice, there was no margin of error listed? There never is. Why do you think your manipulator never offers you any margin of error?

Too funny.
.
19-09-2022 07:49
duncan61
★★★★★
(2003)
IBDm type in Joseph Fourier and take your pick. I concur with what I have been reading and it falls in to line with a lot of presentations I have seen. On sunday I read Politiplex from one end to the other minus politics. Its a bit Lord of the rings like with all the pictures
19-09-2022 08:02
HarveyH55Profile picture★★★★★
(4323)
The whole greenhouse comparison is nonsense. A greenhouse reduces convection. The planet is completely different, the air is always moving. Only half the planet experiences daylight are any moment, but the air from the entire planet is constantly moving, blending. Where hot air, and cold air meet, is often a weather event. Water moves a lot of thermal energy away from the surface. Takes energy for water to change states, from liquid to vapor. The more energy available, the higher the water vapor will rise, further it will travel around the planet. Global warming only exist in computer models, which fail to take into account the entire dynamics of the planet. They only focus on the warming.
19-09-2022 13:36
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(12584)
duncan61 wrote:IBDm type in Joseph Fourier and take your pick.

There is no end to the list of warmizombies pretending to speak for dead people ... because that works on gullible people. All the gullibles want is for someone to do their thinking for them. There's a reason you have no science to accompany your regurgitations.

The bottom line is that you identify yourself as stupid and gullible when you fall for it. Hence, you are stupid and gullible. Logic 101.

duncan61 wrote:I concur with what I have been reading

I know you concur. It's totally absurd. That's what sucks you in like a vacuum cleaner. If it were intuitive and actually correct, you'd dismiss it immediately. You've made this point abundantly clear.
19-09-2022 13:36
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(12584)
duncan61 wrote:IBDm type in Joseph Fourier and take your pick.

There is no end to the list of warmizombies pretending to speak for dead people ... because that works on gullible people. All the gullibles want is for someone to do their thinking for them. There's a reason you have no science to accompany your regurgitations.

The bottom line is that you identify yourself as stupid and gullible when you fall for it. Hence, you are stupid and gullible. Logic 101.

duncan61 wrote:I concur with what I have been reading

I know you concur. It's totally absurd. That's what sucks you in like a vacuum cleaner. If it were intuitive and actually correct, you'd dismiss it immediately. You've made this point abundantly clear.
19-09-2022 13:47
SwanProfile picture★★★★★
(2139)
duncan61 wrote:
IBDm type in Joseph Fourier and take your pick. I concur with what I have been reading and it falls in to line with a lot of presentations I have seen. On sunday I read Politiplex from one end to the other minus politics. Its a bit Lord of the rings like with all the pictures


Actually you believe whatever they program you to believe because you are a mindless zombie


This place is quieter than the FBI commenting on the chink bank account information on Hunter Xiden's laptop

I LOVE TRUMP BECAUSE HE PISSES OFF ALL THE PEOPLE THAT I CAN'T STAND.

ULTRA MAGA

Now be honest, was I correct or was I correct? LOL
19-09-2022 16:28
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(12584)
duncan61 wrote:These gases are known as greenhouse gases. Below are the most important greenhouse gases that influence Earth's climate system.

You never questioned why there is no definition whatsoever for this entire basis of discussion, therefore it makes perfect sense, right?

You never asked what, specifically, is meant by "influenced," did you?

At least you know what it feels like to be totally cognitively manipulated.

duncan61 wrote: ... which causes Earth to be warmer than it otherwise would be.

Notice that it does not read "... which causes the bottom of the atmosphere to be much cooler than it otherwise would be during the day and much warmer than it otherwise would be at night." The stupid wording you think "makes perfect sense" requires you to deny the daytime side of the moon, ... which I notice you do.

You're stupid in that way. Were you planning on blaming someone else for your decision to deny the daytime side of the moon? Consider it, because denying the daytime side of the moon is very stupid and would certainly invite the mockery of many people.

.
19-09-2022 16:47
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(12584)
HarveyH55 wrote:The whole greenhouse comparison is nonsense. A greenhouse reduces convection.

Correct.

The presentation of "greenhouse" imagery is directed toward stupid, scientifically illiterate morons who aren't aware that there isn't any convection in the vacuum of space. The idea that certain gases somehow "reduce" the convection to space, like a greenhouse, works on the gullibles of the world. Such people would be willing to deny the daytime side of the moon. The intended audience of warmizombies are that stupid and will easily fall for it.
19-09-2022 22:20
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(19283)
duncan61 wrote:
In 1827, Joseph Fourier, a French mathematician and physicist, wondered why Earth's average temperature is approximately 15°C (59°F).

The Earth's temperature is unknown. It is not possible to measure it.
duncan61 wrote:
He reasoned that there must be some type of balance between the incoming energy and the outgoing energy to maintain this fairly constant temperature. His calculations indicated that Earth should actually be much colder (-18°C or 0°F).

There is no 'should be' temperature.
duncan61 wrote:
To have an average temperature of 15°C (59°F), Fourier knew that there had to be another process occurring in the atmosphere

Inventing a 'process' to account for a made up number is useless.
duncan61 wrote:
–– something similar to the way a greenhouse retains heat.

It is not possible to trap, slow, or retain heat.
duncan61 wrote:
A greenhouse's glass enclosure allows visible light to enter and be absorbed by the plants and soil.

Good for the plants. Absorption of visible light does not result in conversion to thermal energy.
duncan61 wrote:
The plants and soil then emit the absorbed heat energy

Heat is not energy.
duncan61 wrote:
as infrared radiation.

Light is not heat.
duncan61 wrote:
The glass of the greenhouse then absorbs that infrared radiation, emitting some of it back into the greenhouse and thus keeping the greenhouse warm even when the temperature outside is lower.

No, you cannot heat a warmer surface using a colder object. You are ignoring the 2nd law of thermodynamics.
duncan61 wrote:

Because the two processes are similar, the name "greenhouse effect" was coined to describe Fourier's explanation. However, part of a greenhouse's warmth results from the physical barrier of the glass, which prevents the warmer air from flowing outward. So despite the fact that the atmospheric greenhouse effect has some processes in common with an actual greenhouse, the overall mechanisms driving the greenhouse effect are different and more complex

Complexity fallacy. The atmosphere has no lid.
duncan61 wrote:

Greenhouse Gases
You have already learned that Earth's atmosphere is composed primarily of nitrogen and oxygen. These gases are transparent to incoming solar radiation.

No, they aren't.
duncan61 wrote:
They are also transparent to outgoing infrared radiation,

No, they aren't.
duncan61 wrote:
which means that they do not absorb or emit solar or infrared radiation.

They do both.
duncan61 wrote:
However, there are other gases in Earth's atmosphere that do absorb infrared radiation.

All gases absorb light. All gases emit light in accordance with the Stefan-Boltzmann law, which you are ignoring.
duncan61 wrote:
These gases are known as greenhouse gases.

No such thing, other than as a religious artifact.
duncan61 wrote:
Below are the most important greenhouse gases that influence Earth's climate system.

Climate isn't a system. There is no such thing as a global climate.
duncan61 wrote:

Water vapor (H2O)

Water vapor (H2O) is the strongest greenhouse gas,

No such thing.
duncan61 wrote:
and the concentration of this gas is largely controlled by the temperature of the atmosphere.

Water vapor is not controlled by the temperature of the atmosphere.
duncan61 wrote:
As air becomes warmer, it can hold more moisture or water vapor.

But it doesn't have to.
duncan61 wrote:
When the air becomes saturated (or holds as much moisture as the air can at that temperature), the excess moisture will condense into cloud droplets. And if these droplets are large enough, they will fall as precipitation.

Sort of. It's the point where clouds (or fog) form.
duncan61 wrote:

Carbon dioxide (CO2)

Carbon dioxide (CO2) is also an important greenhouse gas.

No such thing.
duncan61 wrote:
It has a long lifetime in Earth's atmosphere.

It is not possible to measure how long a CO2 molecule has been around.
duncan61 wrote:
Carbon dioxide strongly absorbs energy with a wavelength of 15 μm (micrometers).

It absorbs many wavelengths.
duncan61 wrote:
This makes carbon dioxide a good absorber of wavelengths falling in the infrared radiation region of the spectrum.

Just like any gas in the atmosphere.
duncan61 wrote:
Carbon dioxide constantly moves into and out of the atmosphere through four major processes: photosynthesis, respiration, organic decomposition or decay, and combustion or the burning of organic material. You will learn more about carbon dioxide and the carbon cycle in Module 4.

Carbon dioxide is not carbon.
duncan61 wrote:

Methane (CH4)

Methane (CH4) is 30 times stronger than carbon dioxide as an absorber of infrared radiation.

There is not 'strength of absorption'.
duncan61 wrote:
Methane, however, is present in smaller concentrations than carbon dioxide,

It is not possible to measure the global atmospheric concentration of either CO2 or methane.
duncan61 wrote:
so its net contribution to the greenhouse effect is not as large.

No gas or vapor has the capability to warm the Earth. You can't create energy out of nothing. You are ignoring the 1st law of thermodynamics.
duncan61 wrote:
Methane is also relatively short-lived (lasting approximately 8 years) in the atmosphere.

It is not possible to measure the age of any methane molecule.
duncan61 wrote:
Methane is produced when bacteria decompose organic plant and animal matter in such places as wetlands (e.g., marshes, mudflats, flooded rice fields), sewage treatment plants, landfills, and the guts of cattle and termites.

Methane also occurs in the atmosphere of other planets and moons, which have no organic anything. How do you suppose it gets there?????!?
duncan61 wrote:
Scientists are concerned about the concentration of methane

High priests of the Church of Global Warming are not scientists.
duncan61 wrote:
increasing in regions where the Arctic and alpine permafrost is thawing

It isn't.
duncan61 wrote:
and releasing methane as it warms.

It isn't.
duncan61 wrote:
Halocarbons are composed of carbon, chlorine, fluorine, and hydrogen. They include chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs), which are man-made gases commonly used in refrigerators and air conditioners. Concentrations of CFC gases in the atmosphere are the highest of any of the halocarbons, and they can absorb more infrared radiation than any other greenhouse gas.

There is no 'strength of absorption'. ALL gases and vapors absorb infrared light. ALL gases and vapors also emit light according to the Stefan-Boltzmann law, which you are still ignoring.

duncan61 wrote:
The impact of 1 molecule of a CFC gas is equivalent to 10,000 molecules of carbon dioxide.

There is not impact. Zero * 10,000 is still zero.

duncan61 wrote:

Nitrous oxide (N2O)

Nitrous oxide (N2O), a relatively long-lived gas, has increased in atmospheric concentration due mainly to agriculture.

No. Nitrous oxide is manufactured by heating ammonia. Some of it escapes, laughing boy. Sunlight breaks it down into nitrogen and oxygen.

duncan61 wrote:
Nitrate (NO3-)

Not a chemical.
duncan61 wrote:
and ammonia (NH4+) are used as fertilizers.

So?
duncan61 wrote:
Bacteria convert a small amount of this nitrate and ammonia into the form of nitrous oxide. Internal combustion engines also produce nitrous oxide.

There is no chemical called 'nitrate'. Nitrous oxide is manufactured by heating ammonia, laughing boy.
duncan61 wrote:

Ozone (O3)

Ozone (O3) is also a relatively minor greenhouse gas

No gas or vapor can warm the Earth. You can't create energy out of nothing.
duncan61 wrote:
because it is found in relatively low concentrations in the troposphere (the lowest layer of the atmosphere).

It is found throughout the atmosphere, including at the surface.
duncan61 wrote:
In the troposphere, it is produced by a combination of pollutants — mostly hydrocarbons and nitrogen oxide compounds.

Ozone is not produced from hydrocarbons or nitrogen oxides. Ozone is produced from oxygen. You basically take oxygen and shove energy into it. In the atmosphere, it is produced naturally by the action of UVb light (from the Sun) on oxygen. This blocks a lot of UVb light from reaching the surface (some of it still does). Ozone is destroyed back into oxygen again by the action of UVc light (from the Sun). This blocks UVc light. None of that reaches the surface. See the Chapman cycle.
duncan61 wrote:

Greenhouse Gas Concentrations
John Tyndall
John Tyndall. - Image Credit: Wikipedia
In the 1860s, John Tyndall, an Irish scientist who was fascinated by the growth and formation of glaciers, wanted to test his ideas explaining how Earth maintained a fairly constant temperature.

It is not possible to measure the temperature of the Earth. Tyndall contributed nothing to science.
duncan61 wrote:
He began a series of experiments to measure the amount of radiant heat (infrared radiation) that certain gases could absorb and transmit. Tyndall found that water vapor and carbon dioxide were good absorbers and emitters of infrared radiation.

So is every gas in the atmosphere. Meh.

duncan61 wrote:
The relative importance of a greenhouse gas depends on its abundance in Earth's atmosphere and how much the gas can absorb specific wavelengths of energy.

There is no 'strength of absorption'. ALL gases and vapors absorb infrared light. ALL gases and vapors emit light in accordance with the Stefan-Boltzmann law, which you are STILL ignoring.

duncan61 wrote:
An effective absorber of infrared radiation has a broader absorption profile, which means that it can absorb a wider spectrum of wavelengths. Water vapor and carbon dioxide can absorb radiation wavelengths in the range of 4 μm to 80 μm, except those between 8 μm and 12 μm. Ozone can absorb wavelengths between 9 μm and 10 μm, but as you have learned, it is found in low concentrations. The sun's ultraviolet wavelengths are strongly absorbed by ozone in the stratosphere.

WRONG. Ozone is CREATED by ultraviolet light and is again DESTROYED by ultraviolet light.

duncan61 wrote:
How the Greenhouse Effect Works
The sun's visible wavelengths of radiation pass easily through the atmosphere and reach Earth. Approximately 51% of this sunlight is absorbed at Earth's surface by the land, water, and vegetation.

Visible light does not convert to thermal energy upon absorption.
duncan61 wrote:
Some of this energy is emitted back from the Earth's surface in the form of infrared radiation.

No, you cannot heat a warmer surface using a colder gas. You are ignoring the 2nd law of thermodynamics again.
duncan61 wrote:

Water vapor, carbon dioxide, methane, and other trace gases in Earth's atmosphere absorb the longer wavelengths of outgoing infrared radiation from Earth's surface.

Nothing about infrared light makes it a longer wavelength just because it's direction changes.
duncan61 wrote:
These gases then emit the infrared radiation in all directions, both outward toward space and downward toward Earth. This process creates a second source of radiation to warm to surface

Nope. That pesky 2nd law of thermodynamics again says NOT POSSIBLE.
duncan61 wrote:
– visible radiation from the sun and infrared radiation from the atmosphere – which causes Earth to be warmer than it otherwise would be.

There is no 'should be'.
duncan61 wrote:
This process is known as the natural greenhouse effect

No such process or 'effect'.
duncan61 wrote:
and keeps Earth's average global temperature at approximately 15°C (59°F).

The Earth's temperature is unknown. It is not possible to measure it.
duncan61 wrote:

Natural vs. Enhanced Greenhouse Effect
Certain human activities emit additional greenhouse gases to the atmosphere and increase the amount of heat that gets absorbed

Heat is not absorbed.
duncan61 wrote:
before escaping to space,

Heat is not contained in anything. It doesn't need to 'escape'.
duncan61 wrote:
thus enhancing the greenhouse effect and amplifying the warming of the earth.

No. You cannot create energy out of nothing. You cannot heat a warmer object with a colder one. See the 1st and 2nd laws of thermodynamics, which are you STILL ignoring.
duncan61 wrote:

When averaged over the course of a year, the amount of incoming solar radiation received from the sun has balanced the amount of outgoing energy emitted from Earth.

Second by second. Minute by minute. It is always balanced.
duncan61 wrote:
This equilibrium is called Earth's energy or radiation balance. Relatively small changes in the amounts of greenhouse gases in Earth's atmosphere can greatly alter that balance between incoming and outgoing radiation.

No. You cannot trap light. You cannot trap heat. You cannot trap thermal energy. YOU CANNOT HEAT A WARMER SURFACE USING A COLDER GAS.
duncan61 wrote:
Earth then warms or cools in order to restore the radiative balance at the top of the atmosphere.

There is no 'lid'. There is no 'top of the atmosphere'. You cannot decrease entropy for any reason at any time. You are ignoring the 1st and 2nd laws of thermodynamics and the Stefan-Boltzmann law.

You cannot trap heat.
You cannot trap light.
You cannot heat a warmer object using a colder one.
You cannot create energy out of nothing.
You cannot measure the temperature of the Earth.
You cannot measure the global atmospheric concentration of any gas in the atmosphere.

You are just quoting religious text as 'The Ultimate Truth'. Circular argument fallacy (fundamentalism). Denial of science. Denial of mathematics. Discard of history. Evasion.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
20-09-2022 03:32
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(12584)
@Into the Night, I appreciate you covering the items I overlooked.

Into the Night wrote:There is no 'should be' temperature.

I can't emphasize enough the stupidity of falling for the subjunctive, or for any Could'a-Would'a-Should'a in a supposed science discussion.

Into the Night wrote:It is not possible to trap, slow, or retain heat.

duncan has no intention of ever learning what heat is. He might recite back a correct definition but he will insist on ignoring that definition and on totally misusing the term ... and then laugh about it.

Into the Night wrote:It is not possible to measure how long a CO2 molecule has been around.

It really takes a special type of stupid+gullible combination to fall for the "age of a molecule in the atmosphere" or "residence time for energy."

duncan61 wrote:Carbon dioxide strongly absorbs energy with a wavelength of 15 μm (micrometers).

duncan61 wrote:Methane (CH4) is 30 times stronger than carbon dioxide as an absorber of infrared radiation.

Into the Night wrote:There is no 'strength of absorption'.

It takes a special kind of scientific illiteracy to even think that "strength of absorption" or "saturation point" are somehow plausible.

duncan61 wrote:Carbon dioxide constantly moves into and out of the atmosphere through four major processes: photosynthesis, respiration, organic decomposition or decay, and combustion or the burning of organic material.

He didn't mention:
1. humans compressing it and putting it into a tank of some sort.
2. humans putting it into beer or soda or something else
3. humans making dry ice
4. the ocean absorbing and dissolving it
5. rain absorbing some of it
6. gravity pulling it downward toward the surface for 1-5 to happen.

Into the Night wrote:It is not possible to measure the global atmospheric concentration of either CO2 or methane.

Apparently, the faith convinces warmizombies that they are omniscient. This permeates the religion and will not likely go away any time soon.

Into the Night wrote:It is not possible to measure the age of any methane molecule.

The claim of omniscience will not likely be going away any time soon.

Into the Night wrote:Methane also occurs in the atmosphere of other planets and moons, which have no organic anything. How do you suppose it gets there?????!?

Swan teleports it there with his quantum teleporter.

Into the Night wrote:High priests of the Church of Global Warming are not scientists.

Truer words have never been spoken.


Into the Night wrote:There is no 'strength of absorption'. ALL gases and vapors absorb infrared light. ALL gases and vapors also emit light according to the Stefan-Boltzmann law, which you are still ignoring.

The way to defeat Stefan-Boltzmann is the Holy Grail of the warmizombies. They will never relent in their quest for it.

Into the Night wrote: Ozone is produced from oxygen. You basically take oxygen and shove energy into it. In the atmosphere, it is produced naturally by the action of UVb light (from the Sun) on oxygen. This blocks a lot of UVb light from reaching the surface (some of it still does). Ozone is destroyed back into oxygen again by the action of UVc light (from the Sun). This blocks UVc light. None of that reaches the surface. See the Chapman cycle.

I don't think duncan was paying attention.

Into the Night wrote:It is not possible to measure the temperature of the Earth. Tyndall contributed nothing to science.

Nonetheless, Tyndall is a dead person, and one can pretend to speak for him. duncan will obviously fall for it every time someone does so.

Into the Night wrote:There is no 'strength of absorption'. ALL gases and vapors absorb infrared light. ALL gases and vapors emit light in accordance with the Stefan-Boltzmann law, which you are STILL ignoring.

duncan is trying to kill Stefan-Boltzmann, not show it respect. They are enemies.

Into the Night wrote:WRONG. Ozone is CREATED by ultraviolet light and is again DESTROYED by ultraviolet light.

It would appear that duncan can be made to believe anything,


Into the Night wrote:The Earth's temperature is unknown. It is not possible to measure it.

Warmizombies believe their faith causes them to be wise and to KNOW.

duncan61 wrote:Heat is not absorbed.

duncan will not be getting this right anytime soon.


Into the Night wrote:Second by second. Minute by minute. It is always balanced.

Well put. This is a good way to describe equilibrium.

Into the Night wrote:No. You cannot trap light. You cannot trap heat. You cannot trap thermal energy. YOU CANNOT HEAT A WARMER SURFACE USING A COLDER GAS.

You'd think we'd be beyond this already.

Into the Night wrote:
There is no 'lid'. There is no 'top of the atmosphere'. You cannot decrease entropy for any reason at any time. You are ignoring the 1st and 2nd laws of thermodynamics and the Stefan-Boltzmann law.

You cannot trap heat.
You cannot trap light.
You cannot heat a warmer object using a colder one.
You cannot create energy out of nothing.
You cannot measure the temperature of the Earth.
You cannot measure the global atmospheric concentration of any gas in the atmosphere.

You are just quoting religious text as 'The Ultimate Truth'. Circular argument fallacy (fundamentalism). Denial of science. Denial of mathematics. Discard of history. Evasion.

You'd think we'd be beyond this already.
20-09-2022 16:58
gfm7175Profile picture★★★★★
(3184)
I see that duncan still hasn't made any progress... Maybe he should focus his mind on crypto... Oh wait, he isn't learning anything about that either...
21-09-2022 07:40
duncan61
★★★★★
(2003)
I came to this site over 3 years ago to use it as a source to establish if the warming claims are true. I am satisfied that nothing is warming apart from natural variation and we could bang on about how this works and that works but all that matters is the planet going to cook in the next 10 years and the answer is short. NO. This forum has gone political and after reading most of politiplex I can see it is a cult by IBDm and ITN with one disciple gfm7175. Good luck and goodbye
21-09-2022 14:02
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(12584)
duncan61 wrote:I came to this site over 3 years ago to use it as a source to establish if the warming claims are true.

Nope, that's not why you came. We've been over this several times. You came to this site to demonize a competing sect of your warmizombie faith.

You are lying outright when you claim that you somehow came here to learn. You came here with a set of preexisting conclusions and you fully intended to preach them without entertaining a single word of science or math to the contrary.

duncan61 wrote:I am satisfied ...

... with your preexisting conclusions.

duncan61 wrote: ... that nothing is warming apart from natural variation and we could bang on about how this works and that works

Nope. We cannot. You won't ever define your terms and you refuse to accept either science or math ... because you are too stupid to understand any. Strangely, you try to blame me for this and even insist that science is something that I somehow fabricated.

duncan61 wrote: This forum has gone political

Nope. You avoid science and math in the preaching of your politics.

duncan61 wrote:and after reading most of politiplex I can see it is a cult

You never learned what references are either? Is there anything that you ever did learn?

.
21-09-2022 19:01
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(19283)
duncan61 wrote:
I came to this site over 3 years ago to use it as a source to establish if the warming claims are true. I am satisfied that nothing is warming apart from natural variation and we could bang on about how this works and that works but all that matters is the planet going to cook in the next 10 years and the answer is short. NO. This forum has gone political and after reading most of politiplex I can see it is a cult by IBDm and ITN with one disciple gfm7175. Good luck and goodbye

Nah. The one that has made no progress is YOU. Do not blame the website or anybody else for YOUR PROBLEM.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
Page 2 of 2<12





Join the debate Clouds:

Remember me

Related content
ThreadsRepliesLast post
Clouds401-04-2022 02:54
Clouds are warming Earth, not (so much) GHGs26218-10-2021 23:25
Do CO2 Emissions Create More Clouds?12419-01-2020 23:09
Experts reveal that clouds have moderated warming triggered by climate change1006-11-2019 23:54
High CO2 levels can destabilize marine layer clouds106-03-2019 22:01
▲ Top of page
Public Poll
Who is leading the renewable energy race?

US

EU

China

Japan

India

Brazil

Other

Don't know


Thanks for supporting Climate-Debate.com.
Copyright © 2009-2020 Climate-Debate.com | About | Contact