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climate19-12-2020 02:13
duncan61
★★★☆☆
(919)
CLIMATE.
The long term weather patterns in a certain area

This is not my work but I feel it is a good description
Rainforest do not generally vary a lot in temperature but have massive ranges in humidity yet deserts do vary in temperature but traditionally do not have a lot of humidity.It can be monitored over time.I live in a temperate clime some even dare say Mediterranian and it will be cold and wet in July and hot and clear in January.I have had over 50 years to observe this in person.Have a good think about it before you blow me out the water


duncan61
19-12-2020 03:52
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(14592)
duncan61 wrote:
CLIMATE.
The long term weather patterns in a certain area

This is not my work but I feel it is a good description
Rainforest do not generally vary a lot in temperature but have massive ranges in humidity yet deserts do vary in temperature but traditionally do not have a lot of humidity.It can be monitored over time.I live in a temperate clime some even dare say Mediterranian and it will be cold and wet in July and hot and clear in January.I have had over 50 years to observe this in person.Have a good think about it before you blow me out the water


Every part of your description is on subjective terms. There is no unit of measurement for a climate. There is no such thing as a 'global climate'. Earth is made up of many climates.

No, I am not blowing you out of the water. You have simply describe various climates.

The problem, of course, is what is 'a long time'? What is 'a certain area'?


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
Edited on 19-12-2020 03:53
19-12-2020 03:55
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(8114)
duncan61 wrote: CLIMATE. The long term weather patterns in a certain area . This is not my work but I feel it is a good description

I have already explained to you why it is stupid. You are, of course, free to think stupid shit is nonetheless "a good description" but don't be surprised when people peg you for being a moron. When they do, you will only have yourself to blame.

How do you expect to explain what you mean by long-term weather? Hmmm? You are setting yourself up to be mocked and ridiculed.

What are you going to say when it is pointed out to you that there is no such thing as "patterns" in random events? Are you going to pretend to be offended when you are asked when you dropped out of school?

How are you going to extrapolate "a certain area" into "the entire globe"? How are you planning on characterizing earth's "climate"? Is it freezing-hot mild-extreme humid-arid polar-tropical clear with heavy fog? What is it?

In fact, I just might start the mocking right now ... you know, to sort of get the ball rolling.

[begin mocking] Duncan, how many of both forcings and feedbacks do I need in order to have a valid measure of the global climate?

duncan61 wrote: Rainforest do not generally vary a lot in temperature

What do you mean by "a lot." I stood in one particular spot in Panamanian rain forest when it was 98.4F (36.9C) and another time when that same spot was 49.8F (9.9C). That's just a tad short of 50F (27C) difference.

All places on earth have broad temperature swings.

.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
19-12-2020 05:19
HarveyH55
★★★★★
(2966)
How 'long', is a long period of time? Since 'time' is a man made unit of measurement, just like planet killing CO2, is man made. The longest time available, in some areas, is about 122 years, when some locations started to keep an official, daily record (more, or less). Those records, pertain, only to the location they were recorded. They are the air temperature, not the ground temperature. If the air wasn't moving so much cold air down from way up north, it would be warm in Florida right now. The wind also moves hot air around too, though we don't mind, or care most of the time.

A long period of time, like the last ice age? Unfortunately, that ended long before anyone figured out how to write, and record anything, much less invent thermometers. Then again, time and calendars hadn't been invented either. This is our first inter glacial period, where we wrote stuff down, kept records. What is 'normal', is all fresh and new. We can invent all kinds of guesses, as to what our records an measurements mean, but we don't have any records, from past inter glacial periods to compare them to. We haven't any way to determine what a long period time is, for how long a inter glacial period lasts, or even how long an ice age will last. We would need to go through several cycles, to establish any sort of 'normal', many more thousands of years, of taking measurements, and recording our findings. The declaration of an emergency, at this point, is fantasy
19-12-2020 06:01
Spongy Iris
★★★☆☆
(480)
duncan61 wrote:
CLIMATE.
The long term weather patterns in a certain area

This is not my work but I feel it is a good description
Rainforest do not generally vary a lot in temperature but have massive ranges in humidity yet deserts do vary in temperature but traditionally do not have a lot of humidity.It can be monitored over time.I live in a temperate clime some even dare say Mediterranian and it will be cold and wet in July and hot and clear in January.I have had over 50 years to observe this in person.Have a good think about it before you blow me out the water


These gas lighters will never acknowledge that greater humidity causes warmer weather in a cold climate.

It goes against their religion to acknowledge that.

They must never go outside and don't know how to read weather forecasts.


19-12-2020 06:20
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(8114)
Spongy Iris wrote:These gas lighters will never acknowledge that greater humidity causes warmer weather in a cold climate.

You will never admit that you believe in violations of physics.

How does Greenhouse Effect supposedly increase earth's average temperature without additional energy?

Admitting the faith-based nature of your WACKY religion goes against your religious dogma's assertion that your religion is somehow not a religion and is instead "thettled thienth."

Really, how does Greenhouse Effect supposedly increase earth's average temperature without additional energy? Your claim that clouds have miraculous superpowers to control temperature all rest on your answer to this question.

.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
19-12-2020 06:35
Spongy Iris
★★★☆☆
(480)
IBdaMann wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:These gas lighters will never acknowledge that greater humidity causes warmer weather in a cold climate.

You will never admit that you believe in violations of physics.

How does Greenhouse Effect supposedly increase earth's average temperature without additional energy?

Admitting the faith-based nature of your WACKY religion goes against your religious dogma's assertion that your religion is somehow not a religion and is instead "thettled thienth."

Really, how does Greenhouse Effect supposedly increase earth's average temperature without additional energy? Your claim that clouds have miraculous superpowers to control temperature all rest on your answer to this question.

.


Spend some time outside. Follow the weather through the seasons.

Let's count this year in my Mediterranean climate at 38 N. We had frosts in 4 mornings this late fall so far. So there were freezing temps. It was cold enough to snow. This happens pretty much every year a few times, if it's a clear night and if wind speed is high enough.

But when was the last time it snowed? 1976. Just about every single time, in all of winter history, when the clouds roll in, it gets too warm to snow.

Go figure...



Edited on 19-12-2020 06:36
19-12-2020 06:37
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(8114)
Spongy Iris wrote:Spend some time outside. Follow the weather through the seasons.

Spend some time with a physics textbook.

Really, how does Greenhouse Effect supposedly increase earth's average temperature without additional energy? Your claim that clouds have miraculous superpowers to control temperature all rest on your answer to this question.

.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
19-12-2020 06:43
Spongy Iris
★★★☆☆
(480)
IBdaMann wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:Spend some time outside. Follow the weather through the seasons.

Spend some time with a physics textbook.

Really, how does Greenhouse Effect supposedly increase earth's average temperature without additional energy? Your claim that clouds have miraculous superpowers to control temperature all rest on your answer to this question.

.


Increased atmospheric CO2 would increase atmospheric density.

Imagine if you pump up a tire, it generates heat.


19-12-2020 07:15
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(8114)
Spongy Iris wrote:Imagine if you pump up a tire, it generates heat.

The pumping requires energy which ultimately changes form into thermal energy which increases the temperature. No one questions matter's ability to increase in temperature with additional energy.

Where you crash and burn is when you claim that the earth somehow spontaneously increases in temperature without additional energy. Don't pump up a tire. Notice that it doesn't spontaneously increase in temperature without additional energy.

Your WACKY religion is just that, i.e. a religion. I hate to break it to you but your religion is not supported by any science. In fact, it specifically runs counter to science. Your religion is one big violation of physics.

Clouds do NOT have magical superpowers to control temperature and they cannot create energy out of nothing.

Sorry.


.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
19-12-2020 07:25
duncan61
★★★☆☆
(919)
I spent a lot of time at Tully in a rainforest and it was never cold enough to wear a jumper.Does it get cold in the Congo?Are you going to deny that some areas on the planet have seasonal weather.I get there is no pattern that can be set in stone but I know its not going to snow in Perth in the next few months.You only insult me because you are still smarting from Trump losing.Hows that for switching topics
19-12-2020 07:28
duncan61
★★★☆☆
(919)
I will turn my Frigate sideways so you dont miss
19-12-2020 07:50
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(8114)
duncan61 wrote:I get there is no pattern that can be set in stone

No. There is no pattern. Period.

Think of it this way: If you flip a coin one hundred times, what "pattern" will you see that will tell you what you will flip next to continue the pattern? Correct, there are no patterns in random events. A pattern necessarily implies a dependency on some deterministic process that "determines" the pattern and creates it. There are no dependencies in random events. Each random event is independent of other random events that precede it or that follow it.

So if I roll three dice each day in the winter and add the totals, there will be no pattern. If I then add one die and roll four dice throughout the fall those totals will similarly have no pattern despite being statistically higher than the winter totals that I rolled. In the summer I roll five dice, again without pattern. In the Fall I roll four dice. Still no pattern at any point throughout the year.

You can't treat random events like their outcome is somehow deterministic and predetermined, as though what their final outcome will be is "what we know." the moment you do, you are begging to be mocked.

duncan61 wrote: ... but I know its not going to snow in Perth in the next few months.

First, you DON'T know that. It is merely your operating assumption. You are trying to claim that something you don't know is "what we know." Somebody bent you over and reamed that misinformation into you.

Second, whenever I roll four dice I know my total will not add up to three. Big deal. I still don't know what I'm going to roll.

duncan61 wrote: You only insult me because you are still smarting from Trump losing.

Imagine how you are going to be raked over the coals when Trump is sworn in in January.

You are naive about your own media. They are apparently the ones bending you over.

.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
19-12-2020 08:22
Spongy Iris
★★★☆☆
(480)
IBdaMann wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:Imagine if you pump up a tire, it generates heat.

The pumping requires energy which ultimately changes form into thermal energy which increases the temperature. No one questions matter's ability to increase in temperature with additional energy.

Where you crash and burn is when you claim that the earth somehow spontaneously increases in temperature without additional energy. Don't pump up a tire. Notice that it doesn't spontaneously increase in temperature without additional energy.

Your WACKY religion is just that, i.e. a religion. I hate to break it to you but your religion is not supported by any science. In fact, it specifically runs counter to science. Your religion is one big violation of physics.

Clouds do NOT have magical superpowers to control temperature and they cannot create energy out of nothing.

Sorry.


.


The energy added (pumping of the tire) is 1) breathing 2) burning.


19-12-2020 08:25
HarveyH55
★★★★★
(2966)
Spongy Iris wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:These gas lighters will never acknowledge that greater humidity causes warmer weather in a cold climate.

You will never admit that you believe in violations of physics.

How does Greenhouse Effect supposedly increase earth's average temperature without additional energy?

Admitting the faith-based nature of your WACKY religion goes against your religious dogma's assertion that your religion is somehow not a religion and is instead "thettled thienth."

Really, how does Greenhouse Effect supposedly increase earth's average temperature without additional energy? Your claim that clouds have miraculous superpowers to control temperature all rest on your answer to this question.

.


Spend some time outside. Follow the weather through the seasons.

Let's count this year in my Mediterranean climate at 38 N. We had frosts in 4 mornings this late fall so far. So there were freezing temps. It was cold enough to snow. This happens pretty much every year a few times, if it's a clear night and if wind speed is high enough.

But when was the last time it snowed? 1976. Just about every single time, in all of winter history, when the clouds roll in, it gets too warm to snow.

Go figure...


how exactly do we get snow, without clouds? Snow clouds were pretty distinctive, where I grew up. No clouds, no snow, no freezing rain (worse than snow).
19-12-2020 08:40
Spongy Iris
★★★☆☆
(480)
HarveyH55 wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:These gas lighters will never acknowledge that greater humidity causes warmer weather in a cold climate.

You will never admit that you believe in violations of physics.

How does Greenhouse Effect supposedly increase earth's average temperature without additional energy?

Admitting the faith-based nature of your WACKY religion goes against your religious dogma's assertion that your religion is somehow not a religion and is instead "thettled thienth."

Really, how does Greenhouse Effect supposedly increase earth's average temperature without additional energy? Your claim that clouds have miraculous superpowers to control temperature all rest on your answer to this question.

.


Spend some time outside. Follow the weather through the seasons.

Let's count this year in my Mediterranean climate at 38 N. We had frosts in 4 mornings this late fall so far. So there were freezing temps. It was cold enough to snow. This happens pretty much every year a few times, if it's a clear night and if wind speed is high enough.

But when was the last time it snowed? 1976. Just about every single time, in all of winter history, when the clouds roll in, it gets too warm to snow.

Go figure...


how exactly do we get snow, without clouds? Snow clouds were pretty distinctive, where I grew up. No clouds, no snow, no freezing rain (worse than snow).


That's the point dude! Whenever there are clouds it's too warm to snow. It rains.

If it's often cold enough to snow, why doesn't it ever snow?


19-12-2020 09:13
duncan61
★★★☆☆
(919)
IBDM.The dice analogy is not stacking up.It will not snow in Pert in the middle of summer because it never has.We will have hot sunny days and lots of wind.From March to April it will cool down a little and the furnace that is summer will abate and the winds will ease off.You get used to blue skies and days in the mid to low 20s.Then it cools more and the first rains the old people hook up the caravan and head North.You can follow the weather as we tip away from the sun and as you head North you are following the weather all the way to Carnarvon which is far enough.Some tourist go further like Broome or Darwin and it is not going to snow there either.Trumps packing his bags to go live in Palm beach.Your beaten oik
19-12-2020 12:01
Xadoman
★★☆☆☆
(387)
HarveyH55 wrote:
How 'long', is a long period of time? Since 'time' is a man made unit of measurement, just like planet killing CO2, is man made. The longest time available, in some areas, is about 122 years, when some locations started to keep an official, daily record (more, or less). Those records, pertain, only to the location they were recorded. They are the air temperature, not the ground temperature. If the air wasn't moving so much cold air down from way up north, it would be warm in Florida right now. The wind also moves hot air around too, though we don't mind, or care most of the time.

A long period of time, like the last ice age? Unfortunately, that ended long before anyone figured out how to write, and record anything, much less invent thermometers. Then again, time and calendars hadn't been invented either. This is our first inter glacial period, where we wrote stuff down, kept records. What is 'normal', is all fresh and new. We can invent all kinds of guesses, as to what our records an measurements mean, but we don't have any records, from past inter glacial periods to compare them to. We haven't any way to determine what a long period time is, for how long a inter glacial period lasts, or even how long an ice age will last. We would need to go through several cycles, to establish any sort of 'normal', many more thousands of years, of taking measurements, and recording our findings. The declaration of an emergency, at this point, is fantasy


Could somebody explain me what kind of event could trigger an ice age on earth.
19-12-2020 12:12
Xadoman
★★☆☆☆
(387)
My observations about clouds are following. In the winter when there are clouds the weather is usually warmer and mild. In the summer on the other hand when there are clouds the weather is not as warm as without clouds. The hottest days are with the clear sky.
19-12-2020 15:31
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(8114)
duncan61 wrote:IBDM.The dice analogy is not stacking up.

That's too bad. What part did you not understand?

duncan61 wrote:It will not snow in Pert in the middle of summer because it never has.

1. Again, you are deluding yourself into believing that you foresee the future. You are confusing your confidence with knowledge. There is no "sufficient amount" that suddenly transforms confidence into knowledge. If there were then we could control the future by hypnotizing and convincing people to absolute certainty of what we wanted to occur.
2. Past performance is no guarantee of future results; there is always a first time for everything
3. You are following tgoebble's lead in committing the fallacy of claimed omniscience. The future is anything but "what we know." Only science predicts nature.
4. You have not been around Perth forever. You don't know if and when it has snowed in Perth during the summer. You are again making another claim of omniscience.

duncan61 wrote: We will have hot sunny days and lots of wind.From March to April it will cool down a little and the furnace that is summer will abate and the winds will ease off.

I am familiar with how the earth orbits the sun. You still do not know the weather's future.

.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
19-12-2020 19:42
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(14592)
Spongy Iris wrote:
duncan61 wrote:
CLIMATE.
The long term weather patterns in a certain area

This is not my work but I feel it is a good description
Rainforest do not generally vary a lot in temperature but have massive ranges in humidity yet deserts do vary in temperature but traditionally do not have a lot of humidity.It can be monitored over time.I live in a temperate clime some even dare say Mediterranian and it will be cold and wet in July and hot and clear in January.I have had over 50 years to observe this in person.Have a good think about it before you blow me out the water


These gas lighters will never acknowledge that greater humidity causes warmer weather in a cold climate.

Humidity is not temperature, thought it is dependent on temperature. Reversal fallacy.
Spongy Iris wrote:
It goes against their religion to acknowledge that.

No, you are making a reversal fallacy.
Spongy Iris wrote:
They must never go outside and don't know how to read weather forecasts.

Inversion fallacy. That would be you. Why do you think humidity is expressed either as a percentage or as a temperature/dew point spread?


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
19-12-2020 19:46
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(14592)
Spongy Iris wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:These gas lighters will never acknowledge that greater humidity causes warmer weather in a cold climate.

You will never admit that you believe in violations of physics.

How does Greenhouse Effect supposedly increase earth's average temperature without additional energy?

Admitting the faith-based nature of your WACKY religion goes against your religious dogma's assertion that your religion is somehow not a religion and is instead "thettled thienth."

Really, how does Greenhouse Effect supposedly increase earth's average temperature without additional energy? Your claim that clouds have miraculous superpowers to control temperature all rest on your answer to this question.

.


Spend some time outside. Follow the weather through the seasons.

So? There is a winter and a summer. The only place that is not true is at the equator itself.
Spongy Iris wrote:
Let's count this year in my Mediterranean climate at 38 N. We had frosts in 4 mornings this late fall so far. So there were freezing temps. It was cold enough to snow. This happens pretty much every year a few times, if it's a clear night and if wind speed is high enough.

But when was the last time it snowed? 1976. Just about every single time, in all of winter history, when the clouds roll in, it gets too warm to snow.

Go figure...

So? You are in a marine climate. You are in the Mediterranean (usually a warmer location). You are at sea level. It has nothing to do with humidity.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
19-12-2020 19:47
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(14592)
Spongy Iris wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:Spend some time outside. Follow the weather through the seasons.

Spend some time with a physics textbook.

Really, how does Greenhouse Effect supposedly increase earth's average temperature without additional energy? Your claim that clouds have miraculous superpowers to control temperature all rest on your answer to this question.

.


Increased atmospheric CO2 would increase atmospheric density.

Imagine if you pump up a tire, it generates heat.

Not possible. There is not enough carbon dioxide to significantly alter anything. It also cycles in and out of the atmosphere. We aren't talking about 1% of the atmosphere here. The atmosphere is not a closed container. It is not like a tire. To pump up a tire requires energy.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
Edited on 19-12-2020 19:48
19-12-2020 19:56
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(14592)
Spongy Iris wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:Imagine if you pump up a tire, it generates heat.

The pumping requires energy which ultimately changes form into thermal energy which increases the temperature. No one questions matter's ability to increase in temperature with additional energy.

Where you crash and burn is when you claim that the earth somehow spontaneously increases in temperature without additional energy. Don't pump up a tire. Notice that it doesn't spontaneously increase in temperature without additional energy.

Your WACKY religion is just that, i.e. a religion. I hate to break it to you but your religion is not supported by any science. In fact, it specifically runs counter to science. Your religion is one big violation of physics.

Clouds do NOT have magical superpowers to control temperature and they cannot create energy out of nothing.

Sorry.


.


The energy added (pumping of the tire) is 1) breathing 2) burning.


No. Breathing does not generate thermal energy.
Burning does, but that is dissipated into space along with the rest of any thermal energy the Earth has.

No gas or vapor has the capability of warming the Earth. You can't create energy out of nothing.
You can't trap heat.
You can't trap light.
You can't trap thermal energy. There is always heat.

Burning doesn't add energy to Earth. Neither does breathing. The energy is already on Earth in the form of chemical energy (a type of potential energy). Potential energy has no temperature.

You are warm blooded. You get that energy keep your body warm by using the energy it takes to grow a plant.

It is still energy from the Sun. Nothing has increased energy anywhere except the Sun. Nothing has prevented that energy from being lost to space. The Earth stays the same temperature (assuming the Sun has the same output).


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
19-12-2020 19:57
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(14592)
Spongy Iris wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:These gas lighters will never acknowledge that greater humidity causes warmer weather in a cold climate.

You will never admit that you believe in violations of physics.

How does Greenhouse Effect supposedly increase earth's average temperature without additional energy?

Admitting the faith-based nature of your WACKY religion goes against your religious dogma's assertion that your religion is somehow not a religion and is instead "thettled thienth."

Really, how does Greenhouse Effect supposedly increase earth's average temperature without additional energy? Your claim that clouds have miraculous superpowers to control temperature all rest on your answer to this question.

.


Spend some time outside. Follow the weather through the seasons.

Let's count this year in my Mediterranean climate at 38 N. We had frosts in 4 mornings this late fall so far. So there were freezing temps. It was cold enough to snow. This happens pretty much every year a few times, if it's a clear night and if wind speed is high enough.

But when was the last time it snowed? 1976. Just about every single time, in all of winter history, when the clouds roll in, it gets too warm to snow.

Go figure...


how exactly do we get snow, without clouds? Snow clouds were pretty distinctive, where I grew up. No clouds, no snow, no freezing rain (worse than snow).


That's the point dude! Whenever there are clouds it's too warm to snow. It rains.

If it's often cold enough to snow, why doesn't it ever snow?

It does snow. You said so yourself.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
19-12-2020 19:59
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(14592)
duncan61 wrote:
IBDM.The dice analogy is not stacking up.It will not snow in Pert in the middle of summer because it never has.We will have hot sunny days and lots of wind.From March to April it will cool down a little and the furnace that is summer will abate and the winds will ease off.You get used to blue skies and days in the mid to low 20s.Then it cools more and the first rains the old people hook up the caravan and head North.You can follow the weather as we tip away from the sun and as you head North you are following the weather all the way to Carnarvon which is far enough.Some tourist go further like Broome or Darwin and it is not going to snow there either.Trumps packing his bags to go live in Palm beach.Your beaten oik


Denial of probability math. You have completely missed IBDMs analogy. Four dice instead of just three? To read it again.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
19-12-2020 19:59
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(14592)
Xadoman wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
How 'long', is a long period of time? Since 'time' is a man made unit of measurement, just like planet killing CO2, is man made. The longest time available, in some areas, is about 122 years, when some locations started to keep an official, daily record (more, or less). Those records, pertain, only to the location they were recorded. They are the air temperature, not the ground temperature. If the air wasn't moving so much cold air down from way up north, it would be warm in Florida right now. The wind also moves hot air around too, though we don't mind, or care most of the time.

A long period of time, like the last ice age? Unfortunately, that ended long before anyone figured out how to write, and record anything, much less invent thermometers. Then again, time and calendars hadn't been invented either. This is our first inter glacial period, where we wrote stuff down, kept records. What is 'normal', is all fresh and new. We can invent all kinds of guesses, as to what our records an measurements mean, but we don't have any records, from past inter glacial periods to compare them to. We haven't any way to determine what a long period time is, for how long a inter glacial period lasts, or even how long an ice age will last. We would need to go through several cycles, to establish any sort of 'normal', many more thousands of years, of taking measurements, and recording our findings. The declaration of an emergency, at this point, is fantasy


Could somebody explain me what kind of event could trigger an ice age on earth.

Unknown. It is not even known if there WAS an ice age on Earth.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
19-12-2020 20:02
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(14592)
Xadoman wrote:
My observations about clouds are following. In the winter when there are clouds the weather is usually warmer and mild. In the summer on the other hand when there are clouds the weather is not as warm as without clouds. The hottest days are with the clear sky.


Are you describing what you feel, or the actual temperature measured?

Clouds do not create or destroy energy.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
19-12-2020 23:15
Spongy Iris
★★★☆☆
(480)
Xadoman wrote:
My observations about clouds are following. In the winter when there are clouds the weather is usually warmer and mild. In the summer on the other hand when there are clouds the weather is not as warm as without clouds. The hottest days are with the clear sky.


This observation cannot be acknowledged by The Parrot, Bad In Man, and Harvey.

Therefore, according to them, you are delusional



19-12-2020 23:27
Spongy Iris
★★★☆☆
(480)
Into the Night wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
duncan61 wrote:
CLIMATE.
The long term weather patterns in a certain area

This is not my work but I feel it is a good description
Rainforest do not generally vary a lot in temperature but have massive ranges in humidity yet deserts do vary in temperature but traditionally do not have a lot of humidity.It can be monitored over time.I live in a temperate clime some even dare say Mediterranian and it will be cold and wet in July and hot and clear in January.I have had over 50 years to observe this in person.Have a good think about it before you blow me out the water


All irrelevant points and denial

These gas lighters will never acknowledge that greater humidity causes warmer weather in a cold climate.

Humidity is not temperature, thought it is dependent on temperature. Reversal fallacy.
Spongy Iris wrote:
It goes against their religion to acknowledge that.

No, you are making a reversal fallacy.
Spongy Iris wrote:
They must never go outside and don't know how to read weather forecasts.

Inversion fallacy. That would be you. Why do you think humidity is expressed either as a percentage or as a temperature/dew point spread?


It is not a "reversal fallacy." You must be in denial.

You say humidity is dependent on temperature, and imply temperature cannot be dependent on humidity. This is a false dichotomy. You appear to be fabricating an either/or situation where such situation does not exist. Clouds have an effect on temperature. Xadoman just summed it up basically.

And since you are so rigid you can't even acknowledge this, it suggests that it goes against your religion and must be denied with rabid zeal.


19-12-2020 23:38
Spongy Iris
★★★☆☆
(480)
Into the Night wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:Spend some time outside. Follow the weather through the seasons.

Spend some time with a physics textbook.

Really, how does Greenhouse Effect supposedly increase earth's average temperature without additional energy? Your claim that clouds have miraculous superpowers to control temperature all rest on your answer to this question.

.


Increased atmospheric CO2 would increase atmospheric density.

Imagine if you pump up a tire, it generates heat.

Not possible. There is not enough carbon dioxide to significantly alter anything. It also cycles in and out of the atmosphere. We aren't talking about 1% of the atmosphere here. The atmosphere is not a closed container. It is not like a tire. To pump up a tire requires energy.


I'm pretty sure what you are explicitly saying here is false.

Carbon dioxide increases the rate of water evaporation, and probably has lead to a cloudier world.

This would explain why the surface extent of ice in the Arctic has decreased substantially in the past 30 years. Clouds effect warmer temperatures in a cold climate.

Actually I think the atmosphere is more like a refrigerator / freezer, which must necessarily be closed container to function properly.


19-12-2020 23:53
Spongy Iris
★★★☆☆
(480)
Into the Night wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:Imagine if you pump up a tire, it generates heat.

The pumping requires energy which ultimately changes form into thermal energy which increases the temperature. No one questions matter's ability to increase in temperature with additional energy.

Where you crash and burn is when you claim that the earth somehow spontaneously increases in temperature without additional energy. Don't pump up a tire. Notice that it doesn't spontaneously increase in temperature without additional energy.

Your WACKY religion is just that, i.e. a religion. I hate to break it to you but your religion is not supported by any science. In fact, it specifically runs counter to science. Your religion is one big violation of physics.

Clouds do NOT have magical superpowers to control temperature and they cannot create energy out of nothing.

Sorry.


.


The energy added (pumping of the tire) is 1) breathing 2) burning.


No. Breathing does not generate thermal energy.
Burning does, but that is dissipated into space along with the rest of any thermal energy the Earth has.

No gas or vapor has the capability of warming the Earth. You can't create energy out of nothing.
You can't trap heat.
You can't trap light.
You can't trap thermal energy. There is always heat.

Burning doesn't add energy to Earth. Neither does breathing. The energy is already on Earth in the form of chemical energy (a type of potential energy). Potential energy has no temperature.

You are warm blooded. You get that energy keep your body warm by using the energy it takes to grow a plant.

It is still energy from the Sun. Nothing has increased energy anywhere except the Sun. Nothing has prevented that energy from being lost to space. The Earth stays the same temperature (assuming the Sun has the same output).


Copper shields against UV radiation effectively.

Glass slows down UV radiation.

Water is a good insulator.

A freezer traps cold in a box.

If you have a cloud cover, the clouds must be acting like insulation, from either hot sun or cold atmosphere.


19-12-2020 23:58
Spongy Iris
★★★☆☆
(480)
Into the Night wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:These gas lighters will never acknowledge that greater humidity causes warmer weather in a cold climate.

You will never admit that you believe in violations of physics.

How does Greenhouse Effect supposedly increase earth's average temperature without additional energy?

Admitting the faith-based nature of your WACKY religion goes against your religious dogma's assertion that your religion is somehow not a religion and is instead "thettled thienth."

Really, how does Greenhouse Effect supposedly increase earth's average temperature without additional energy? Your claim that clouds have miraculous superpowers to control temperature all rest on your answer to this question.

.


Spend some time outside. Follow the weather through the seasons.

Let's count this year in my Mediterranean climate at 38 N. We had frosts in 4 mornings this late fall so far. So there were freezing temps. It was cold enough to snow. This happens pretty much every year a few times, if it's a clear night and if wind speed is high enough.

But when was the last time it snowed? 1976. Just about every single time, in all of winter history, when the clouds roll in, it gets too warm to snow.

Go figure...


how exactly do we get snow, without clouds? Snow clouds were pretty distinctive, where I grew up. No clouds, no snow, no freezing rain (worse than snow).


That's the point dude! Whenever there are clouds it's too warm to snow. It rains.

If it's often cold enough to snow, why doesn't it ever snow?

It does snow. You said so yourself.


Denial of probability statistics. NOT a reversal fallacy.

It freezes 5 or 10 times a year and hasn't snowed in almost 50 years.

You are making an argument which is basically saying it's possible to roll a dice randomly 1000 times and never land on a 6!



Edited on 20-12-2020 00:55
20-12-2020 00:01
Spongy Iris
★★★☆☆
(480)
Into the Night wrote:
Xadoman wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
How 'long', is a long period of time? Since 'time' is a man made unit of measurement, just like planet killing CO2, is man made. The longest time available, in some areas, is about 122 years, when some locations started to keep an official, daily record (more, or less). Those records, pertain, only to the location they were recorded. They are the air temperature, not the ground temperature. If the air wasn't moving so much cold air down from way up north, it would be warm in Florida right now. The wind also moves hot air around too, though we don't mind, or care most of the time.

A long period of time, like the last ice age? Unfortunately, that ended long before anyone figured out how to write, and record anything, much less invent thermometers. Then again, time and calendars hadn't been invented either. This is our first inter glacial period, where we wrote stuff down, kept records. What is 'normal', is all fresh and new. We can invent all kinds of guesses, as to what our records an measurements mean, but we don't have any records, from past inter glacial periods to compare them to. We haven't any way to determine what a long period time is, for how long a inter glacial period lasts, or even how long an ice age will last. We would need to go through several cycles, to establish any sort of 'normal', many more thousands of years, of taking measurements, and recording our findings. The declaration of an emergency, at this point, is fantasy


Could somebody explain me what kind of event could trigger an ice age on earth.

Unknown. It is not even known if there WAS an ice age on Earth.


Hi Duncan,

What was that evidence you once shared about an ice age at the equator? I can't remember it off the top of my head...

Cheers


20-12-2020 00:18
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(8114)
Xadoman wrote:My observations about clouds are

Wrong word. You are about to describe your opinion, your pet theory that happens to run counter to physics.

Clouds have no magical superpowers to control temperature.

Xadoman wrote:. In the winter when there are clouds the weather is usually warmer and mild.

You STILL have not explained why you believe that clouds somehow cause changing conditions instead of changing conditions causing clouds, i.e. why you have the whole cause<=>effect thing backwards.

How do clouds magically increase the temperature when they find it to be cold, and then turn down the heat when it's "hot" without either magically creating energy or destroying same? How do clouds do that because I'd like to start a business selling products that do exactly that.

.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
20-12-2020 00:52
duncan61
★★★☆☆
(919)
Spongy.Arctic ice is not receding.Every year it freezes over do not believe NASA.I am with you on the cloud cover effect on atmospheric temperature.I have been in direct sunlight and a cloud creates shade and it is cooler in that spot.There are so many variables to the temperature in every scenario which is why we claim the average global temperature can not be known.I have been in a plane landing in winter here and above the clouds it is sunny then as you descend it is darker and raining.To say clouds have no effect on temperature because of physics is as nuts as claiming CO2 is warming the planet and that is bad.Why is warming not good?
20-12-2020 01:06
Spongy Iris
★★★☆☆
(480)
duncan61 wrote:
Spongy.Arctic ice is not receding.Every year it freezes over do not believe NASA.I am with you on the cloud cover effect on atmospheric temperature.I have been in direct sunlight and a cloud creates shade and it is cooler in that spot.There are so many variables to the temperature in every scenario which is why we claim the average global temperature can not be known.I have been in a plane landing in winter here and above the clouds it is sunny then as you descend it is darker and raining.To say clouds have no effect on temperature because of physics is as nuts as claiming CO2 is warming the planet and that is bad.Why is warming not good?


I believe the satellite data... Not NASA!


IMO the warming, which the data gathered indicates, is just a confirmation of the effect of increased CO2 concentration in the atmosphere.

I happen to believe it's alarming because I think the earth's atmosphere is a freezer, and the fusion of the sun is with the earth.


20-12-2020 01:16
James___
★★★★★
(3800)
Xadoman wrote:
My observations about clouds are following. In the winter when there are clouds the weather is usually warmer and mild. In the summer on the other hand when there are clouds the weather is not as warm as without clouds. The hottest days are with the clear sky.



Am bored mate. Are you positing the theory that clouds have a lot of kinetic energy? And in the summer that incoming solar IR has more energy than the clouds do?
And then in winter, clouds increase the kinetic energy of the troposphere helping to keep it warm? You have simply gone mad. Clouds cannot have less KE than the Sun and more than a clear winters night. Balderdash I say!!! Balderdash!!!
20-12-2020 01:16
duncan61
★★★☆☆
(919)
Who supplies the satellite data?The temperature measuring device at the end of the runway at Amberley airforce base shows at that point it is a full degree cooler now than 1942.We do have a consensus that based on the few readings that can be taken of average temperatures around the world the warming has paused and will most likely reverse.China has refused to take Australian coal because we dared question the Covid situation now South China is on power rations and they are having a very cold time.The sea is not rising.Not even a little bit anywhere and the ice melts and refoms every year just like it always has.Russia does not give a toss because they take their own readings and have their own modelling and there is no problem
20-12-2020 01:20
duncan61
★★★☆☆
(919)
It has been bought to my attention that urbanisation and paved roads have absorbed energy that a forest would have reflected.Again the amounts are miniscule
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