Climate Change - Vicious Feedbacks and Worst-Case Scenarios
| 30-05-2024 00:43 | |
Into the Night ★★★★★(22456) |
sealover wrote: Stop spamming. The Parrot Killer Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan |
| 30-05-2024 01:16 | |
| sealover★★★★☆ (1732) |
All the most relevant posts of this thread are compiled, beginning about 3/4 way down page 5, beginning with the post "In 1985, I began post graduate research.", and continuing through all of page 6. new paper about applied biogeochemistry April 25, 2022 by Aminata Fofana, and others 89 pages available at SSRN "Permafrost thaw in northern peatlands is likely to create a positive feedback to climate change as soil carbon (C) is released as carbon dioxide (CO2) or methane (CH4)." that's the BAD news "..and p-hydroxybenzoic acid, which are produced by Sphagnum spp., were added at field-relevant concentrations, under anaerobic conditions... Addition of both organic acids greatly increased the CO2:CH4 ratio in deep peats." That's the GOOD news. p-hydroxy benzoic acid is a phenol carboxylic acid produced by plants that can regulate microbial processes in soil. One way or another, carbon in the melting permafrost is going to be released to the atmosphere. Applied biogeochemistry can help ensure that it is released as CO2 and not CH4. Methane has about 20x the global warming potential, compared to carbon dioxide. Timely action to nurture beneficial biological activity in the soil can help to mitigate one of the vicious feedbacks to global warming. It is just the most recent paper to cite sealover's work for this kind of thing. ---------------------------- In April, 2022, this WAS "the most recent paper to cite sealover's work for this kind of thing" As the "Maximizing Carbon Sequestration in Terrestrial Agroecosystems" thread reveals, sealover's published research has been cited in many other new peer-reviewed scientific papers since then. The new viewer who stumbles on to this website might be pleasantly surprised to find out that there is a member who is actually a recognized expert in the biogeochemistry of carbon cycling. |
| 30-05-2024 01:18 | |
| sealover★★★★☆ (1732) |
THIS POST HAS BEEN IDENTIFIED AS "SPAM" BY INTO THE NIGHT Into the Night needs to provide an unambiguous definition of "spam" that is somehow consistent with the content of this post. ------------------------------ "Rivers in Alaska are turning orange. The reason surprised even scientists." This is the title of the story today (May 29, 2024) on CNN, by Fabiana Chaparro. I first saw it about four days ago: "Alaska's rivers are turning orange as thawing permafrost releases metals into waterways." Published May 24, 2024, in Smithsonian Magazine, by Christian Thorsberg. Both these stories are about a report published May 20, 2024: J. O'Donnell, et al. 2024. Metal mobilization from thawing permafrost to aquatic ecosystems is driving rusting of arctic streams. Communications Earth & Environment. (Nature) 5 article 268. The phenomenon was first widely noted in 2018, but satellite imagery confirms it was observable as far back as 2008. This thread includes discussion of carbon dioxide and methane release from thawing permafrost. But the orange rivers aren't about release of greenhouse gases to the atmosphere. Thawing permafrost contains iron pyrite, along with all the toxic elements that get sequestered during pyrite formation. In the frozen state, the pyrite wasn't going anywhere or doing anything. Once thawed and exposed to oxygen, microorganisms oxidize the sulfide and (ferrous) iron(II) contained in the pyrite, to release ferric iron(III) and sulfuric acid. Some of the orange streams have pH as low as 3. As the papers' titles imply, in addition to ferric iron(III), there are far more toxic metals also released in the pyrite oxidation process. The biogeochemistry of climate change is about more than greenhouse gases. Aquatic ecosystems are also impacted in other ways. Acidic orange rivers in Alaska are one example. Depletion of the ocean's alkalinity, and consequent diminishing of bioavailable carbonate ion for shell formation is another example. Regarding the toxic metals identified to be of concern in the orange rivers, I can draw upon my own experience investigating the legacy of an orange river created by mercury mining operations. Microbial oxidation of iron pyrite, as always, was the biggest contributor of sulfuric acid and ferric iron(III) surface water. Ferric iron(III) is only soluble at the acidic pH at the point of origin. Upon contact with near neutral pH surface water, the ferric iron(III) precipitates out as iron floc. Much of the floc can remain suspended in solution and travel for miles with the stream flow. Eventually, it all settles out as hydroxides or oxides of ferric iron(III). Cinnabar is mercury sulfide, and it also oxidized in the mine drainage to generate sulfuric acid and soluble mercury. Upon contact with near neutral pH surface water, the dissolved mercury precipitated out. It co-precipitated with the iron floc, chemically bonded to it. So, the orange rivers in Alaska may carry sediment loads with some toxic metals bonded to iron floc. It would depend on what metals were along with the iron pyrite in the thawing permafrost. All the most relevant posts of this thread are compiled, beginning 3/4 way down page 5 |
| 30-05-2024 02:04 | |
| Into the Night★★★★★ (22456) |
Stop spamming. |
| 31-05-2024 19:50 | |
| sealover★★★★☆ (1732) |
All the most relevant posts of this thread are compiled, beginning about 3/4 way down page 5, beginning with the post "In 1985, I began post graduate research.", and continuing through all of page 6. new paper about applied biogeochemistry April 25, 2022 by Aminata Fofana, and others 89 pages available at SSRN "Permafrost thaw in northern peatlands is likely to create a positive feedback to climate change as soil carbon (C) is released as carbon dioxide (CO2) or methane (CH4)." that's the BAD news "..and p-hydroxybenzoic acid, which are produced by Sphagnum spp., were added at field-relevant concentrations, under anaerobic conditions... Addition of both organic acids greatly increased the CO2:CH4 ratio in deep peats." That's the GOOD news. p-hydroxy benzoic acid is a phenol carboxylic acid produced by plants that can regulate microbial processes in soil. One way or another, carbon in the melting permafrost is going to be released to the atmosphere. Applied biogeochemistry can help ensure that it is released as CO2 and not CH4. Methane has about 20x the global warming potential, compared to carbon dioxide. Timely action to nurture beneficial biological activity in the soil can help to mitigate one of the vicious feedbacks to global warming. It is just the most recent paper to cite sealover's work for this kind of thing. ---------------------------- In April, 2022, this WAS "the most recent paper to cite sealover's work for this kind of thing" As the "Maximizing Carbon Sequestration in Terrestrial Agroecosystems" thread reveals, sealover's published research has been cited in many other new peer-reviewed scientific papers since then. The new viewer who stumbles on to this website might be pleasantly surprised to find out that there is a member who is actually a recognized expert in the biogeochemistry of carbon cycling. |
| 31-05-2024 19:54 | |
| sealover★★★★☆ (1732) |
THIS POST HAS BEEN IDENTIFIED AS "SPAM" BY INTO THE NIGHT Into the Night needs to provide an unambiguous definition of "spam" that is somehow consistent with the content of this post. This NEW phenomenon (orange rivers in Alaska) is a DIRECT RESULT of another relatively new phenomenon called GLOBAL WARMING. ------------------------------ "Rivers in Alaska are turning orange. The reason surprised even scientists." This is the title of the story today (May 29, 2024) on CNN, by Fabiana Chaparro. I first saw it about four days ago: "Alaska's rivers are turning orange as thawing permafrost releases metals into waterways." Published May 24, 2024, in Smithsonian Magazine, by Christian Thorsberg. Both these stories are about a report published May 20, 2024: J. O'Donnell, et al. 2024. Metal mobilization from thawing permafrost to aquatic ecosystems is driving rusting of arctic streams. Communications Earth & Environment. (Nature) 5 article 268. The phenomenon was first widely noted in 2018, but satellite imagery confirms it was observable as far back as 2008. This thread includes discussion of carbon dioxide and methane release from thawing permafrost. But the orange rivers aren't about release of greenhouse gases to the atmosphere. Thawing permafrost contains iron pyrite, along with all the toxic elements that get sequestered during pyrite formation. In the frozen state, the pyrite wasn't going anywhere or doing anything. Once thawed and exposed to oxygen, microorganisms oxidize the sulfide and (ferrous) iron(II) contained in the pyrite, to release ferric iron(III) and sulfuric acid. Some of the orange streams have pH as low as 3. As the papers' titles imply, in addition to ferric iron(III), there are far more toxic metals also released in the pyrite oxidation process. The biogeochemistry of climate change is about more than greenhouse gases. Aquatic ecosystems are also impacted in other ways. Acidic orange rivers in Alaska are one example. Depletion of the ocean's alkalinity, and consequent diminishing of bioavailable carbonate ion for shell formation is another example. Regarding the toxic metals identified to be of concern in the orange rivers, I can draw upon my own experience investigating the legacy of an orange river created by mercury mining operations. Microbial oxidation of iron pyrite, as always, was the biggest contributor of sulfuric acid and ferric iron(III) surface water. Ferric iron(III) is only soluble at the acidic pH at the point of origin. Upon contact with near neutral pH surface water, the ferric iron(III) precipitates out as iron floc. Much of the floc can remain suspended in solution and travel for miles with the stream flow. Eventually, it all settles out as hydroxides or oxides of ferric iron(III). Cinnabar is mercury sulfide, and it also oxidized in the mine drainage to generate sulfuric acid and soluble mercury. Upon contact with near neutral pH surface water, the dissolved mercury precipitated out. It co-precipitated with the iron floc, chemically bonded to it. So, the orange rivers in Alaska may carry sediment loads with some toxic metals bonded to iron floc. It would depend on what metals were along with the iron pyrite in the thawing permafrost. All the most relevant posts of this thread are compiled, beginning 3/4 way down page 5 |
| 01-06-2024 06:06 | |
| Into the Night★★★★★ (22456) |
sealover wrote: No such thing. sealover wrote: The permafrost is not melting. Carbon is not carbon dioxide. sealover wrote: Carbon is not carbon dioxide. Carbon is not methane. sealover wrote: No gas or vapor has the capability to warm the Earth. You cannot create energy out of nothing. You are still ignoring the 1st law of thermodynamics. sealover wrote: There is no 'feedback'. No gas or vapor has the capability to warm the Earth. sealover wrote: Big hairy deal. Science is not a paper. You deny science. The Parrot Killer Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan |
| 01-06-2024 06:09 | |
| Into the Night★★★★★ (22456) |
sealover wrote: Because you keep spamming. sealover wrote: What global warming? No gas or vapor has the capability to warm the Earth. You cannot create energy out of nothing. You are still ignoring the 1st law of thermodynamics. The Parrot Killer Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan |
| 07-06-2024 02:52 | |
| sealover★★★★☆ (1732) |
THIS POST HAS BEEN IDENTIFIED AS "SPAM" BY INTO THE NIGHT Into the Night needs to provide an unambiguous definition of "spam" that is somehow consistent with the content of this post. This post is about a recently identified impact of climate change. Sources are referenced, and expert analysis of the biogeochemistry is presented. When Branner comes back to ban me for spamming, will it be obvious to him that this qualifies as "spam"? Melting the permafrost causes a whole lot of carbon dioxide and methane to be released to the atmosphere, aggravating climate change as a direct feedback to climate change. Another impact is to thaw iron pyrite and expose it to oxidation, producing sulfuric acid and ferric iron(III) orange floc in the rivers. ------------------------------ "Rivers in Alaska are turning orange. The reason surprised even scientists." This is the title of the story today (May 29, 2024) on CNN, by Fabiana Chaparro. I first saw it about four days ago: "Alaska's rivers are turning orange as thawing permafrost releases metals into waterways." Published May 24, 2024, in Smithsonian Magazine, by Christian Thorsberg. Both these stories are about a report published May 20, 2024: J. O'Donnell, et al. 2024. Metal mobilization from thawing permafrost to aquatic ecosystems is driving rusting of arctic streams. Communications Earth & Environment. (Nature) 5 article 268. The phenomenon was first widely noted in 2018, but satellite imagery confirms it was observable as far back as 2008. This thread includes discussion of carbon dioxide and methane release from thawing permafrost. But the orange rivers aren't about release of greenhouse gases to the atmosphere. Thawing permafrost contains iron pyrite, along with all the toxic elements that get sequestered during pyrite formation. In the frozen state, the pyrite wasn't going anywhere or doing anything. Once thawed and exposed to oxygen, microorganisms oxidize the sulfide and (ferrous) iron(II) contained in the pyrite, to release ferric iron(III) and sulfuric acid. Some of the orange streams have pH as low as 3. As the papers' titles imply, in addition to ferric iron(III), there are far more toxic metals also released in the pyrite oxidation process. The biogeochemistry of climate change is about more than greenhouse gases. Aquatic ecosystems are also impacted in other ways. Acidic orange rivers in Alaska are one example. Depletion of the ocean's alkalinity, and consequent diminishing of bioavailable carbonate ion for shell formation is another example. Regarding the toxic metals identified to be of concern in the orange rivers, I can draw upon my own experience investigating the legacy of an orange river created by mercury mining operations. Microbial oxidation of iron pyrite, as always, was the biggest contributor of sulfuric acid and ferric iron(III) surface water. Ferric iron(III) is only soluble at the acidic pH at the point of origin. Upon contact with near neutral pH surface water, the ferric iron(III) precipitates out as iron floc. Much of the floc can remain suspended in solution and travel for miles with the stream flow. Eventually, it all settles out as hydroxides or oxides of ferric iron(III). Cinnabar is mercury sulfide, and it also oxidized in the mine drainage to generate sulfuric acid and soluble mercury. Upon contact with near neutral pH surface water, the dissolved mercury precipitated out. It co-precipitated with the iron floc, chemically bonded to it. So, the orange rivers in Alaska may carry sediment loads with some toxic metals bonded to iron floc. It would depend on what metals were along with the iron pyrite in the thawing permafrost. All the most relevant posts of this thread are compiled, beginning 3/4 way down page 5[/quote] |
| 07-06-2024 08:26 | |
IBdaMann ★★★★★(14841) |
sealover wrote: This post is about a recently identified impact of climate change. How do you know? How do you know that the Climate Change religion isn't just a hoax taking advantage of your scientific illiteracy-induced gullibility? Why should I care what any minister of Climate has to say about anything? Why should any rational adult believe in the Climate Change faith? Why would any rational adult knowingly adopt a religion based on science denial, and then believe that its clergy are all thienth geniutheth? Why would any rational adult get within ten feet of a religion that makes believers take vows of ignorance and query-rejection? |
| 07-06-2024 17:19 | |
| keepit★★★★★ (3330) |
ibd, you're neither a rational nor an adult. Get real. |
| 07-06-2024 20:22 | |
| Im a BM★★★★☆ (1120) |
ITN missed an opportunity to subject this to "scientific" analysis, rather than just dismissing it as "spam". Here is what we missed: "You don't even know what science is. Science is not a river. Iron pyrite is not sulfuric acid. There is no such thing as "permafrost". Meaningless buzzword. It is not possible to measure the temperature of soil. You deny and discard science. You are ignoring the 17th, 18th, and 19th laws of thermodynamics. You are a liar. Stop preaching your WACKY religion. Stop spamming." [quote]sealover wrote: THIS POST HAS BEEN IDENTIFIED AS "SPAM" BY INTO THE NIGHT Into the Night needs to provide an unambiguous definition of "spam" that is somehow consistent with the content of this post. This post is about a recently identified impact of climate change. Sources are referenced, and expert analysis of the biogeochemistry is presented. When Branner comes back to ban me for spamming, will it be obvious to him that this qualifies as "spam"? Melting the permafrost causes a whole lot of carbon dioxide and methane to be released to the atmosphere, aggravating climate change as a direct feedback to climate change. Another impact is to thaw iron pyrite and expose it to oxidation, producing sulfuric acid and ferric iron(III) orange floc in the rivers. ------------------------------ "Rivers in Alaska are turning orange. The reason surprised even scientists." This is the title of the story today (May 29, 2024) on CNN, by Fabiana Chaparro. I first saw it about four days ago: "Alaska's rivers are turning orange as thawing permafrost releases metals into waterways." Published May 24, 2024, in Smithsonian Magazine, by Christian Thorsberg. Both these stories are about a report published May 20, 2024: J. O'Donnell, et al. 2024. Metal mobilization from thawing permafrost to aquatic ecosystems is driving rusting of arctic streams. Communications Earth & Environment. (Nature) 5 article 268. The phenomenon was first widely noted in 2018, but satellite imagery confirms it was observable as far back as 2008. This thread includes discussion of carbon dioxide and methane release from thawing permafrost. But the orange rivers aren't about release of greenhouse gases to the atmosphere. Thawing permafrost contains iron pyrite, along with all the toxic elements that get sequestered during pyrite formation. In the frozen state, the pyrite wasn't going anywhere or doing anything. Once thawed and exposed to oxygen, microorganisms oxidize the sulfide and (ferrous) iron(II) contained in the pyrite, to release ferric iron(III) and sulfuric acid. Some of the orange streams have pH as low as 3. As the papers' titles imply, in addition to ferric iron(III), there are far more toxic metals also released in the pyrite oxidation process. The biogeochemistry of climate change is about more than greenhouse gases. Aquatic ecosystems are also impacted in other ways. Acidic orange rivers in Alaska are one example. Depletion of the ocean's alkalinity, and consequent diminishing of bioavailable carbonate ion for shell formation is another example. Regarding the toxic metals identified to be of concern in the orange rivers, I can draw upon my own experience investigating the legacy of an orange river created by mercury mining operations. Microbial oxidation of iron pyrite, as always, was the biggest contributor of sulfuric acid and ferric iron(III) surface water. Ferric iron(III) is only soluble at the acidic pH at the point of origin. Upon contact with near neutral pH surface water, the ferric iron(III) precipitates out as iron floc. Much of the floc can remain suspended in solution and travel for miles with the stream flow. Eventually, it all settles out as hydroxides or oxides of ferric iron(III). Cinnabar is mercury sulfide, and it also oxidized in the mine drainage to generate sulfuric acid and soluble mercury. Upon contact with near neutral pH surface water, the dissolved mercury precipitated out. It co-precipitated with the iron floc, chemically bonded to it. So, the orange rivers in Alaska may carry sediment loads with some toxic metals bonded to iron floc. It would depend on what metals were along with the iron pyrite in the thawing permafrost. All the most relevant posts of this thread are compiled, beginning 3/4 way down page 5 |
| 07-06-2024 21:01 | |
| IBdaMann★★★★★ (14841) |
keepit wrote: ibd, you're neither a rational nor an adult. Get real. You're full of baloney, keepit. Too many false statements.  |
| 08-06-2024 01:44 | |
| James_★★★★★ (2273) |
IBdaMann wrote:keepit wrote: ibd, you're neither a rational nor an adult. Get real. You need to be careful about making kespit, kerput, oops, keepit a trend. |
| 08-06-2024 03:05 | |
| Into the Night★★★★★ (22456) |
sealover wrote: Stop spamming. Repeating your posts endlessly, especially across threads, as you are doing, won't work. The Parrot Killer Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan Edited on 08-06-2024 03:31 |
| 09-06-2024 00:04 | |
| sealover★★★★☆ (1732) |
Before you post "stop spamming" again, would you be willing to explain how this post qualifies as "spam"? It doesn't even have to be an "unambiguous definition", because those are very hard to find for ANY term. Just a general guideline would be enough. THIS POST HAS BEEN IDENTIFIED AS "SPAM" BY INTO THE NIGHT Into the Night needs to provide an unambiguous definition of "spam" that is somehow consistent with the content of this post. This post is about a recently identified impact of climate change. Sources are referenced, and expert analysis of the biogeochemistry is presented. When Branner comes back to ban me for spamming, will it be obvious to him that this qualifies as "spam"? Melting the permafrost causes a whole lot of carbon dioxide and methane to be released to the atmosphere, aggravating climate change as a direct feedback to climate change. Another impact is to thaw iron pyrite and expose it to oxidation, producing sulfuric acid and ferric iron(III) orange floc in the rivers. ------------------------------ "Rivers in Alaska are turning orange. The reason surprised even scientists." This is the title of the story today (May 29, 2024) on CNN, by Fabiana Chaparro. I first saw it about four days ago: "Alaska's rivers are turning orange as thawing permafrost releases metals into waterways." Published May 24, 2024, in Smithsonian Magazine, by Christian Thorsberg. Both these stories are about a report published May 20, 2024: J. O'Donnell, et al. 2024. Metal mobilization from thawing permafrost to aquatic ecosystems is driving rusting of arctic streams. Communications Earth & Environment. (Nature) 5 article 268. The phenomenon was first widely noted in 2018, but satellite imagery confirms it was observable as far back as 2008. This thread includes discussion of carbon dioxide and methane release from thawing permafrost. But the orange rivers aren't about release of greenhouse gases to the atmosphere. Thawing permafrost contains iron pyrite, along with all the toxic elements that get sequestered during pyrite formation. In the frozen state, the pyrite wasn't going anywhere or doing anything. Once thawed and exposed to oxygen, microorganisms oxidize the sulfide and (ferrous) iron(II) contained in the pyrite, to release ferric iron(III) and sulfuric acid. Some of the orange streams have pH as low as 3. As the papers' titles imply, in addition to ferric iron(III), there are far more toxic metals also released in the pyrite oxidation process. The biogeochemistry of climate change is about more than greenhouse gases. Aquatic ecosystems are also impacted in other ways. Acidic orange rivers in Alaska are one example. Depletion of the ocean's alkalinity, and consequent diminishing of bioavailable carbonate ion for shell formation is another example. Regarding the toxic metals identified to be of concern in the orange rivers, I can draw upon my own experience investigating the legacy of an orange river created by mercury mining operations. Microbial oxidation of iron pyrite, as always, was the biggest contributor of sulfuric acid and ferric iron(III) surface water. Ferric iron(III) is only soluble at the acidic pH at the point of origin. Upon contact with near neutral pH surface water, the ferric iron(III) precipitates out as iron floc. Much of the floc can remain suspended in solution and travel for miles with the stream flow. Eventually, it all settles out as hydroxides or oxides of ferric iron(III). Cinnabar is mercury sulfide, and it also oxidized in the mine drainage to generate sulfuric acid and soluble mercury. Upon contact with near neutral pH surface water, the dissolved mercury precipitated out. It co-precipitated with the iron floc, chemically bonded to it. So, the orange rivers in Alaska may carry sediment loads with some toxic metals bonded to iron floc. It would depend on what metals were along with the iron pyrite in the thawing permafrost. All the most relevant posts of this thread are compiled, beginning 3/4 way down page 5 |
| 09-06-2024 00:20 | |
| IBdaMann★★★★★ (14841) |
sealover wrote: Before you post "stop spamming" again, would you be willing to explain how this post qualifies as "spam"? Sure. You are reposting posts that already exist instead of simply posting a link to the post. You are thus wasting bandwidth each and every time, and making the thread that much more difficult to follow. Quoting is fine if it supports a new point. Reposting previous discussions that simply serve to waste bandwidth, disrupt discussions and derail threads are very poor form. |
| 09-06-2024 00:32 | |
| sealover★★★★☆ (1732) |
This post was falsely accused of being "spam" within minutes of going up for the first time. At the time, the research article referenced had only been out for less than two weeks. Branner says we should stick to discussing "climate change" (why did he forget to say "debate"?), and that is what this post is about. I guess I was supposed to "post a link to the post". I would not trust ANY links posted on this website. Technically, this is now a REPOST. But, otherwise the original post just got buried in parrot poop and other kinds of troll feces. There might be someone who is interested in scientific discussion of climate change, and they might want to be able to find something actually related to it. THIS POST HAS BEEN IDENTIFIED AS "SPAM" BY INTO THE NIGHT Into the Night needs to provide an unambiguous definition of "spam" that is somehow consistent with the content of this post. This post is about a recently identified impact of climate change. Sources are referenced, and expert analysis of the biogeochemistry is presented. When Branner comes back to ban me for spamming, will it be obvious to him that this qualifies as "spam"? Melting the permafrost causes a whole lot of carbon dioxide and methane to be released to the atmosphere, aggravating climate change as a direct feedback to climate change. Another impact is to thaw iron pyrite and expose it to oxidation, producing sulfuric acid and ferric iron(III) orange floc in the rivers. ------------------------------ "Rivers in Alaska are turning orange. The reason surprised even scientists." This is the title of the story today (May 29, 2024) on CNN, by Fabiana Chaparro. I first saw it about four days ago: "Alaska's rivers are turning orange as thawing permafrost releases metals into waterways." Published May 24, 2024, in Smithsonian Magazine, by Christian Thorsberg. Both these stories are about a report published May 20, 2024: J. O'Donnell, et al. 2024. Metal mobilization from thawing permafrost to aquatic ecosystems is driving rusting of arctic streams. Communications Earth & Environment. (Nature) 5 article 268. The phenomenon was first widely noted in 2018, but satellite imagery confirms it was observable as far back as 2008. This thread includes discussion of carbon dioxide and methane release from thawing permafrost. But the orange rivers aren't about release of greenhouse gases to the atmosphere. Thawing permafrost contains iron pyrite, along with all the toxic elements that get sequestered during pyrite formation. In the frozen state, the pyrite wasn't going anywhere or doing anything. Once thawed and exposed to oxygen, microorganisms oxidize the sulfide and (ferrous) iron(II) contained in the pyrite, to release ferric iron(III) and sulfuric acid. Some of the orange streams have pH as low as 3. As the papers' titles imply, in addition to ferric iron(III), there are far more toxic metals also released in the pyrite oxidation process. The biogeochemistry of climate change is about more than greenhouse gases. Aquatic ecosystems are also impacted in other ways. Acidic orange rivers in Alaska are one example. Depletion of the ocean's alkalinity, and consequent diminishing of bioavailable carbonate ion for shell formation is another example. Regarding the toxic metals identified to be of concern in the orange rivers, I can draw upon my own experience investigating the legacy of an orange river created by mercury mining operations. Microbial oxidation of iron pyrite, as always, was the biggest contributor of sulfuric acid and ferric iron(III) surface water. Ferric iron(III) is only soluble at the acidic pH at the point of origin. Upon contact with near neutral pH surface water, the ferric iron(III) precipitates out as iron floc. Much of the floc can remain suspended in solution and travel for miles with the stream flow. Eventually, it all settles out as hydroxides or oxides of ferric iron(III). Cinnabar is mercury sulfide, and it also oxidized in the mine drainage to generate sulfuric acid and soluble mercury. Upon contact with near neutral pH surface water, the dissolved mercury precipitated out. It co-precipitated with the iron floc, chemically bonded to it. So, the orange rivers in Alaska may carry sediment loads with some toxic metals bonded to iron floc. It would depend on what metals were along with the iron pyrite in the thawing permafrost. All the most relevant posts of this thread are compiled, beginning 3/4 way down page 5[/quote] |
| 09-06-2024 06:41 | |
| IBdaMann★★★★★ (14841) |
squeal over furniture wrote: Branner says we should stick to discussing "climate change" (why did he forget to say "debate"?), and that is what this post is about. Nope. The post had nothing to do with Climate Change. squeal over furniture wrote: There might be someone who is interested in scientific discussion of climate change, Your post contained no science and was not a discussion. In fact, your policy is to refuse to discuss it, for any of a variety of lame, dishonest excuses. squeal over furniture wrote: This post is about a recently identified impact of climate change. Nope. No mentioned "impacts" have anything to do with Climate Change. squeal over furniture wrote: Sources are referenced, and expert analysis of the biogeochemistry is presented. There is no such thing as bigelowchestershire, and even if there were, it wouldn't be Climate Change. squeal over furniture wrote: Melting the permafrost causes a whole lot of carbon dioxide and methane to be released to the atmosphere, Nope. Melting of permafrost releases water vapor into the air. The growth of permafrost regions removes water vapor from the air. squeal over furniture wrote: aggravating climate change as a direct feedback to climate change. That doesn't happen. You are confusing your hoaxes. The melting of permafrost aggravates the chupacabra as a direct feedback to the Norwegian jet stream. What aggravates Climate is the way she is constantly raped by human activity, specifically human activity of conservatives. Her only fighting chance is the human activity of leftists whose unfettered resolve to save the planet radiates at double Stefan-Boltzmann and cradles Climate in loving warmth, allowing her to heal, affording her the strength needed to keep Global Warming at bay. Curse you conservatives and your fossil fuels! But Global Warming's power is accelerating more greatly than previously feared, and now it's only a matter of time before Global Warming's thermal forcings finally flatten the tipping point and burn Climate at the stake. I shouldn't have to teach you this. How do you not know this? squeal over furniture wrote: Another impact is to thaw iron pyrite and expose it to oxidation, producing sulfuric acid and ferric iron(III) orange floc in the rivers. Nope. The IPCC deprecated that impact at the last Climate Conference. It can still happen, but it will just no longer impact Climate. |
| 09-06-2024 09:47 | |
| Into the Night★★★★★ (22456) |
sealover wrote: There is no such thing as 'biogeochemistry'. Science isn't 'experts'. sealover wrote: Climate cannot change. No gas or vapor has the capability to warm the Earth. You are still ignoring the 1st law of thermodynamics. You cannot create energy out of nothing. sealover wrote: Iron is not sulfur. Iron is not oxygen. Pivot fallacy. The Parrot Killer Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan |
| 09-06-2024 09:49 | |
| Into the Night★★★★★ (22456) |
sealover wrote: Stop spamming. The Parrot Killer Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan |
| 11-06-2024 15:00 | |
| Umair☆☆☆☆☆ (2) |
This scenario is fictional. The melting permafrost doesn't affect chupacabra or the Norwegian jet stream. Human activity, particularly from conservatives, exacerbates climate change. Leftists' efforts to combat it offer hope, but global warming's impact intensifies, threatening irreversible consequences. |
| 11-06-2024 15:06 | |
| Umair☆☆☆☆☆ (2) |
This scenario is fictional. The melting permafrost doesn't affect chupacabra or the Norwegian jet stream. Human activity, particularly from conservatives, exacerbates climate change. Leftists' efforts to combat it offer hope, but global warming's impact intensifies, threatening irreversible consequences. |
| 11-06-2024 18:09 | |
| sealover★★★★☆ (1732) |
Umair, this scenario is NOT fictional. Don't believe the disinformation about chupacabra and the Norwegian jet stream. They are ignoring thermodynamics. Are you associated with JohnBis or RicardoGrand? You all joined at just about the same time. Welcome, newcomer(s)! "Rivers in Alaska are turning orange. The reason surprised even scientists." This is the title of the story today (May 29, 2024) on CNN, by Fabiana Chaparro. I first saw it about four days ago: "Alaska's rivers are turning orange as thawing permafrost releases metals into waterways." Published May 24, 2024, in Smithsonian Magazine, by Christian Thorsberg. Both these stories are about a report published May 20, 2024: J. O'Donnell, et al. 2024. Metal mobilization from thawing permafrost to aquatic ecosystems is driving rusting of arctic streams. Communications Earth & Environment. (Nature) 5 article 268. The phenomenon was first widely noted in 2018, but satellite imagery confirms it was observable as far back as 2008. This thread includes discussion of carbon dioxide and methane release from thawing permafrost. But the orange rivers aren't about release of greenhouse gases to the atmosphere. Thawing permafrost contains iron pyrite, along with all the toxic elements that get sequestered during pyrite formation. In the frozen state, the pyrite wasn't going anywhere or doing anything. Once thawed and exposed to oxygen, microorganisms oxidize the sulfide and (ferrous) iron(II) contained in the pyrite, to release ferric iron(III) and sulfuric acid. Some of the orange streams have pH as low as 3. As the papers' titles imply, in addition to ferric iron(III), there are far more toxic metals also released in the pyrite oxidation process. The biogeochemistry of climate change is about more than greenhouse gases. Aquatic ecosystems are also impacted in other ways. Acidic orange rivers in Alaska are one example. Depletion of the ocean's alkalinity, and consequent diminishing of bioavailable carbonate ion for shell formation is another example. Regarding the toxic metals identified to be of concern in the orange rivers, I can draw upon my own experience investigating the legacy of an orange river created by mercury mining operations. Microbial oxidation of iron pyrite, as always, was the biggest contributor of sulfuric acid and ferric iron(III) surface water. Ferric iron(III) is only soluble at the acidic pH at the point of origin. Upon contact with near neutral pH surface water, the ferric iron(III) precipitates out as iron floc. Much of the floc can remain suspended in solution and travel for miles with the stream flow. Eventually, it all settles out as hydroxides or oxides of ferric iron(III). Cinnabar is mercury sulfide, and it also oxidized in the mine drainage to generate sulfuric acid and soluble mercury. Upon contact with near neutral pH surface water, the dissolved mercury precipitated out. It co-precipitated with the iron floc, chemically bonded to it. So, the orange rivers in Alaska may carry sediment loads with some toxic metals bonded to iron floc. It would depend on what metals were along with the iron pyrite in the thawing permafrost. All the most relevant posts of this thread are compiled, beginning 3/4 way down page 5 |
| 12-06-2024 05:21 | |
| Into the Night★★★★★ (22456) |
sealover wrote: The permafrost surface melts every summer and refreezes again in winter, dummy. No gas or vapor has the capability to warm the Earth. You cannot create energy out of nothing. sealover wrote: No such thing as a greenhouse gas. No gas or vapor has the capability to warm the Earth. You are still ignoring the 1st law of thermodynamics. sealover wrote: There is no such thing as 'biogeochemistry'. Climate cannot change. No gas or vapor has the capability to warm the Earth. You are still ignoring the 1st law of thermodynamics. sealover wrote: Not due to temperature. sealover wrote: There is no such thing as 'alkalinity'. It is not possible to measure the pH of the oceans. sealover wrote: There is no such chemical as 'bioavailable carbonate ion'. sealover wrote: Stop spamming. The Parrot Killer Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan |
| 14-06-2024 01:30 | |
| sealover★★★★☆ (1732) |
This article from the Washington Post, May 24, was not included among those about this subject, 2 posts above this one. Alaskan rivers are turning orange. Climate change could be to blame. by Anumita Kaur. May 24, 2024. Washington Post. Climate change could be to blame. Actually, there aren't any OTHER suspects. Permafrost under the tundra only used to melt in the upper topsoil, and only briefly during the summer. Now the permafrost is no longer "perma" in many places. It melts so deep that it is releasing methane that can be set off in spectacular explosions by tourist's cigarette lighters. It melts so deep now that frozen, buried pyrite is thawing and becoming available for oxidation. The orange rivers now seen in northern Alaska are the result of sulfuric acid and ferric iron(III) floc that forms from the microbial oxidation of iron pyrite. That oxidation is only occurring now because the climate has gotten warmer. Nobody really noticed it before 2018. They have since gone back and revealed satellite imagery that shows it had already started happening as early as 2008. This is climate change spam? |
| 15-06-2024 00:42 | |
| Into the Night★★★★★ (22456) |
sealover wrote: Fake News. sealover wrote: Climate cannot change. sealover wrote: It's not melting. sealover wrote: Yes it is. sealover wrote: Methane doesn't explode (unless it's contained). Tourists aren't out in Alaskan swamps with cigarette lighters. sealover wrote: Pyrite is a normal mineral found all over Alaska (and in most western States). sealover wrote: Nope. Just iron. Just like usual. sealover wrote: Climate has no temperature. sealover wrote: Paradox. Irrational. You cannot argue both sides of a paradox. Argument from randU fallacy. sealover wrote: Climate cannot change. Climate isn't a Hormel product. The Parrot Killer Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan |
| 17-06-2024 23:09 | |
| sealover★★★★☆ (1732) |
New phenomenon that could not occur WITHOUT global warming. The orange rivers in northern Alaska are certainly a new one that had not been predicted. First really noticed six years ago, but it turns out it was already happening in some places sixteen years ago. But NEVER before that. Permafrost couldn't be melting like that without global warming. The "bleaching" of coral reefs doesn't seem so new now. Larger and larger bleaching events are becoming the norm. But the phenomenon had NEVER been observed before the 1990s. People have been living and fishing around coral reefs for centuries and centuries without seeing anything like it. Large scale coral reef "bleaching" events couldn't occur without global warming. The extension of range in boreal forests moving north is only beginning to get attention. A boundary between taiga and tundra that had remained stable for centuries of recorded human history is shifting. Forest trees can't make the right kind of root system to survive where only the topsoil melts, and only briefly during the summer. Only when the permafrost is melted to depth, and remains melted throughout the year, can the trees move in. This sudden shift in latitude range of boreal forests couldn't occur without global warming. The list goes on of natural evidence that proves global warming is reality. This article from the Washington Post, May 24, was not included among those about this subject, 2 posts above this one. Alaskan rivers are turning orange. Climate change could be to blame. by Anumita Kaur. May 24, 2024. Washington Post. Climate change could be to blame. Actually, there aren't any OTHER suspects. Permafrost under the tundra only used to melt in the upper topsoil, and only briefly during the summer. Now the permafrost is no longer "perma" in many places. It melts so deep that it is releasing methane that can be set off in spectacular explosions by tourist's cigarette lighters. It melts so deep now that frozen, buried pyrite is thawing and becoming available for oxidation. The orange rivers now seen in northern Alaska are the result of sulfuric acid and ferric iron(III) floc that forms from the microbial oxidation of iron pyrite. That oxidation is only occurring now because the climate has gotten warmer. Nobody really noticed it before 2018. They have since gone back and revealed satellite imagery that shows it had already started happening as early as 2008. This is climate change spam?[/quote] |
| 18-06-2024 13:10 | |
| Xadoman★★★★☆ (1055) |
The earth has been cooling for 4,5 billion years. The surface was molten, the oceans were up in the sky. The temperature used to be 6000+ degrees at the surface, now it is way down the toilet with 15 degrees. As you can see the greenhouse effect has no effect on the overall cooling. Even if it somehow slows down the cooling the end result is still cooling. The earth continues to cool down. The molten core inside the earth continues to cool down. You can theoretically create similar prehistoric atmosphere if you have enough energy to boil the oceans and to heat up rocks to become molten again . Just calculate how many Tsar Bombas you have to explode per second to boil the ocean and turn the rock into molten blob. Also, keep in mind that one time explosion energy is going to dissipate quickly and you have to detonate again and again and again. You need constant raw power from detonations to keep the oceans up in the sky and the rock in molten state. |
| 18-06-2024 18:05 | |
| sealover★★★★☆ (1732) |
From TODAY'S headline news: Hajj pilgrims die of heatstroke as Mecca temperatures hit 120 degrees. By Niha Masih. Washington Post. June 17, 2024. This is the new normal. As Xadoman correctly points out, the interior of the Earth has been gradually cooling for more than 4600 million years. It would have cooled more by now, but nuclear reactions continue to generate new heat within the Earth as heavy elements undergo radioactive decay. What is happening up on the surface today is NOT cooling. Heat strokes at the Mecca pilgrimage are not new. However, more than 2700 cases of heat stress and sunstroke were reported among pilgrims, in addition to the six reported dead. THAT is unprecedented. Kind of like those Trump rallies. Never mind the heat. It is all just propaganda. Or as Trump assured us, like the virus, global warming was going to magically just disappear. Xadoman wrote: |
| 18-06-2024 19:04 | |
| sealover★★★★☆ (1732) |
From TODAY'S headline news: Hajj pilgrims die of heatstroke as Mecca temperatures hit 120 degrees. By Niha Masih. Washington Post. June 17, 2024. This is the new normal. As Xadoman correctly points out, the interior of the Earth has been gradually cooling for more than 4600 million years. It would have cooled more by now, but nuclear reactions continue to generate new heat within the Earth as heavy elements undergo radioactive decay. What is happening up on the surface today is NOT cooling. Heat strokes at the Mecca pilgrimage are not new. However, more than 2700 cases of heat stress and sunstroke were reported among pilgrims, in addition to the six reported dead. THAT is unprecedented. Kind of like those Trump rallies. Never mind the heat. It is all just propaganda. Or as Trump assured us, like the virus, global warming was going to magically just disappear. ADDED NOTE: The date of the Mecca pilgrimage is based on the lunar calendar of 354 days. Therefore, every year it happens 11 days earlier than the year before. Last year, there were also thousands of heat related illnesses, but that was the END of June. Eleven days earlier this year, we already have that kind of summer heat in Mecca today. One technical point for Xadoman. The amount of heat from the Earth's interior exiting toward outer space is a tiny tiny fraction, WAY less than 1%, of what comes off the Earth's surface. The interior heat offers very little relief from the cold. during the part of glacial cycles when glaciers are advancing. There are microsites in the world, such as hot springs, where heat from the Earths's interior makes a discernable difference to local (microsite) temperature. Otherwise, it's all about solar radiation arriving to the Earth, and heat leaving the Earth to go to outer space, back and forth, day and night, winter and summer. Xadoman wrote:[/quote] |
| 18-06-2024 21:34 | |
| IBdaMann★★★★★ (14841) |
sealover wrote: From TODAY'S headline news: Nope. It's the same abnormal. This happens periodically. The Saudis try to prevent it by giving their air conditioners top priority, but the Sahara has always been a hot place. I remember temperatures in Doha (Qatar) painfully exceeding 100F in December. People have been dying on the Hajj for as long as there's been a Hajj. You, however, are only crawling out from under your bridge today and finally learning about this for the first time. As such, what do you conclude? Of course, GLOBAL WARMING and THE NEW NORMAL! You're an idiot. |
| 18-06-2024 23:45 | |
| Into the Night★★★★★ (22456) |
sealover wrote: Stop spamming. The Parrot Killer Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan |
| 22-06-2024 17:42 | |
| sealover★★★★☆ (1732) |
"Billions of people just felt the deadly intensity of climate-fueled heat waves." This is the title of an article in TODAY'S (June 22, 2024) edition of The Washington Post, by Sarah Kaplan and Scott Dance. It includes the sentence: "Hundreds of pilgrims perished before they could reach Islam's holiest site, struck down by temperatures as high as 125 degrees". It shouldn't be so bad next year, as the event will be 11 days earlier ahead of summer than it was this year. The article also includes a somewhat "alarmist" sentence: "The scorching heat across five continents in recent days, scientists say, provided yet more proof that human-caused global warming has so raised the baseline of normal temperatures that once-unthinkable catastrophes have become commonplace." It is no longer a prediction of the kinds of things that MIGHT happen in the future. It is a daily list of adverse impacts already happening right now. And now that it is officially "summer", it is going to get hotter for more months in the northern hemisphere. Cynics can belittle and dismiss it. Paranoid religious cults can identify the evil conspiracy of deception behind it. But it cannot be wished away with word games. It cannot be intimidated into going away by using insults. Fortunately, a very solid majority among the population now realizes it is real. |
| 23-06-2024 02:21 | |
| IBdaMann★★★★★ (14841) |
sealover wrote: "Hundreds of pilgrims perished before they could reach Islam's holiest site, struck down by temperatures as high as 125 degrees". You are chanting, and spamming. We've been over this, Robert. This happens periodically. The high temperatures produce difficulties in the Sahara and kill many people on the Hajj. It's one of the risks. sealover wrote: The article also includes a somewhat "alarmist" sentence: ... and you aren't smart enough to call boooolsch't. Saudi Arabia hasn't become discernibly warmer, and Dominican coral reefs never died. They are both as they have always been. sealover wrote: It is no longer a prediction of the kinds of things that MIGHT happen in the future. Yes, it is still such a prediction. It is foreseeable that deaths will happen on future Hajj just as they have multiple times in the past. sealover wrote: It is a daily list of adverse impacts already happening right now. They were already happening. Jeddah, close to where Mecca is, is arguably the hottest place on earth, and has been long before the Industrial Revolution. You treat news of high temperatures in the Sahara as something bizarre. sealover wrote: And now that it is officially "summer", it is going to get hotter for more months in the northern hemisphere. So Global Warming is a seasonal thing that occurs in the summer, and Global Cooling occurs in the winter, yes? So, at any moment, half the world is Globally Warming and half the world is Globally Cooling. I see. You know that you don't need a WACKY religion for that. sealover wrote: Cynics can belittle and dismiss it. Scientists are more likely to mock and belittle your position. You should know that any argument that is based on denying science, especially while insisting PhD science credentials, will draw the most mockery. sealover wrote: Fortunately, a very solid majority among the population now realizes it is real. I see that you have been selected to speak for the very solid majority. Congrats. It makes all of your arguments so much more authoritative. |
| 25-06-2024 02:01 | |
| Into the Night★★★★★ (22456) |
sealover wrote: Argument from randU fallacy. It is not possible to measure the temperature of the Earth. The word games are YOURS. You cannot blame YOUR problems on anybody else. The Parrot Killer Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan |
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