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climate change05-05-2024 00:54
keepit
★★★★★
(3181)
Back when i was knee high to a grasshopper there was almost no oxygen in the atmosphere. Then blue green algae came to be. Their metabolism started producing oxygen and with time created an atmosphere with 20% oxygen. This is much different than an atmosphere with almost no oxygen. With that we had the most glaring example of climate change.
05-05-2024 00:57
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(22005)
keepit wrote:
Back when i was knee high to a grasshopper

Cliche fallacy. Human babies are larger than grasshoppers.
keepit wrote:
there was almost no oxygen in the atmosphere.

Fiction.
keepit wrote:
Then blue green algae came to be. Their metabolism started producing oxygen and with time created an atmosphere with 20% oxygen. This is much different than an atmosphere with almost no oxygen.

Fiction.
keepit wrote:
With that we had the most glaring example of climate change.

Climate cannot change.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
05-05-2024 00:59
keepit
★★★★★
(3181)
You keep telling yourself that itn.
05-05-2024 01:55
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(14559)
keepit wrote: You keep telling yourself that itn.

You're full of baloney, keepit. You weren't around in the unobserved, distant past, and you don't know anyone who was.

Consider your omniscience fallacy totally debunked. Your speculation might be a full-fledged religion to you, but it's nothing more than wild speculation to anyone outside your faith.
05-05-2024 02:48
keepit
★★★★★
(3181)
ibd,
Well, one of us has a cult belief, i'd say.
05-05-2024 03:38
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(22005)
keepit wrote:
ibd,
Well, one of us has a cult belief, i'd say.

You.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
RE: oxygen05-05-2024 04:23
sealover
★★★★☆
(1616)
keepit wrote:
Back when i was knee high to a grasshopper there was almost no oxygen in the atmosphere. Then blue green algae came to be. Their metabolism started producing oxygen and with time created an atmosphere with 20% oxygen. This is much different than an atmosphere with almost no oxygen. With that we had the most glaring example of climate change.



Keepit, I can't resist giving you a Natural History lesson. Indeed, I used to teach a course called Natural History at a community college.

One myth is that the Earth made a rapid shift from an atmosphere with no oxygen at all (not just "almost no oxygen") to one with 21% as it is now. Some speculated that it would have caused a mass extinction of anaerobic organisms.

It was such an incredibly slow process going from 0% O2 to 21% O2, over at least 2000 million years of oxygenic photosynthesis, that life had plenty of time to adapt to the change.

4000 million years ago, there was photosynthesis, but there was no oxygen produced.

All the early lines of photosynthetic bacteria were anoxygenic - did not generate oxygen.

Cyano bacteria produce oxygen in oxygenic photosynthesis. To do so, they fed a water molecule into a photosystem that generated enough voltage to tear it apart into oxygen and hydrogen. It cost a lot of energy from sunlight just to generate a hydrogen to feed into a second photosystem.

To this day, there are cyanobacteria that can turn off one of their photosystems if they are in the presence of hydrogen (H2). Instead of wasting photo energy to tear water molecules apart, they just take in hydrogen from the environment to feed into their second photosystem. They grow much much faster if you give them hydrogen.

Starting at least 4000 million years ago, photosynthesis occurred using multiple sources other than water molecules to get that hydrogen. Reductants, in decreasing order of energy yield, were hydrogen, hydrogen sulfide, elemental sulfur, arsenite arsenic, ferrous iron, and nitrite nitrogen. Rather than producing oxygen, these produced water, sulfate sulfur, arsenate arsenic, ferric iron, and nitrate nitrogen.

Cyanobacteria couldn't be competitive producing oxygen until the higher energy reductants were depleted and the anoxygenic photosynthetic bacteria couldn't live. They got their shot in some places starting about 3000 million years ago.

Oxygen would never accumulate in the sea or atmosphere so long as there were abundant reductants. It took at least a 1000 million years just to rust away the available ferrous iron into ferric iron before there would be any leftover oxygen to float around.

By 540-530 million years ago, it hit a major threshold. Finally enough had all been rusted away or oxidize that oxygen could accumulate in sea water to high enough concentration to support aerobic organisms. This was the beginning of the Cambrian Explosion, during which all the major lines of animals arose.

By 500 million years ago, enough free oxygen had accumulated in the atmosphere to form an ozone layer thick enough to block UV.

This is when it became possible for life to exist on land without getting burned to death by ultraviolet.

If you are interested, there is a lot more about this on the "geoengineering..." thread that I will pull up
05-05-2024 04:33
keepit
★★★★★
(3181)
Sea.
That was an awesome explanation of the history. Don't forget - i did say "with time" to make the oxygen.
I take it that cyanobacteria not the same as blue green algae. My bad.
RE: Cyanobacteria IS Blue Green Algae05-05-2024 05:01
sealover
★★★★☆
(1616)
keepit wrote:
Sea.
That was an awesome explanation of the history. Don't forget - i did say "with time" to make the oxygen.
I take it that cyanobacteria not the same as blue green algae. My bad.




Not your bad at all. Cyanobacteria IS blue green algae (aka blue green bacteria)


There are a bunch of posts now pulled up on the "Geoengineering..." thread, as the most recent posts, ALL of them related to this.

You may want to just scroll up and see the different related titles, about the history of photosynthesis and its impact on the Earth.
05-05-2024 22:31
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(22005)
sealover wrote:
Keepit, I can't resist giving you a Natural History lesson.

Preaching isn't a history lesson.
sealover wrote:
Indeed, I used to teach a course called Natural History at a community college.

Preaching isn't a history lesson.
sealover wrote:
One myth is that the Earth made a rapid shift from an atmosphere with no oxygen at all (not just "almost no oxygen") to one with 21% as it is now. Some speculated that it would have caused a mass extinction of anaerobic organisms.

How do you know it's a myth?
sealover wrote:
It was such an incredibly slow process going from 0% O2 to 21% O2, over at least 2000 million years of oxygenic photosynthesis, that life had plenty of time to adapt to the change.

4000 million years ago, there was photosynthesis, but there was no oxygen produced.

You don't know what happened 4 billion years ago or 2 billion years ago.
sealover wrote:
Oxygen would never accumulate in the sea

Seawater contains oxygen. Water is a compound made up of hydrogen and oxygen.
sealover wrote:
or atmosphere so long as there were abundant reductants.

No such chemical.
sealover wrote:
It took at least a 1000 million years just to rust away the available ferrous iron into ferric iron before there would be any leftover oxygen to float around.

You don't know what happened 1 billion years ago.
sealover wrote:
By 540-530 million years ago, it hit a major threshold.

You don't know what happened 540 million years ago.

Omniscience fallacy. You are just preaching a religion.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
05-05-2024 22:32
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(22005)
keepit wrote:
Sea.
That was an awesome explanation of the history. Don't forget - i did say "with time" to make the oxygen.
I take it that cyanobacteria not the same as blue green algae. My bad.

Religion is not history, keepit.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
05-05-2024 22:57
keepit
★★★★★
(3181)
itn,
It's you that sounds like a cult member.
05-05-2024 23:11
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(22005)
keepit wrote:
itn,
It's you that sounds like a cult member.

LIF. Grow up.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
RE: blue green algae became chloroplasts05-05-2024 23:29
sealover
★★★★☆
(1616)
keepit wrote:
Sea.
That was an awesome explanation of the history. Don't forget - i did say "with time" to make the oxygen.
I take it that cyanobacteria not the same as blue green algae. My bad.




You got it right keepit. Blue green algae is a synonym for cyanobacteria is a synonym for blue green bacteria.

"Algae" was a misnomer in the first place, so you won't have seen the term "blue green algae" in textbooks or papers since the last millenium.

True algae are eukaryotic organisms, relatively large cells with a nucleus where the DNA is contained.

Blue green algae are prokaryotic organisms. Bacteria are much much smaller than eukaryotic algae.

In 1975, scientists were still calling them "blue green algae" when they made the astounding discovery that fossil evidence of blue green algae was 2500 million year old.

This pushed the date for the earliest known life WAY back from what it had been before.

But because blue green bacteria are so much smaller than eukaryotic cells, they were able to get a job working inside.

Chloroplasts the structures within green plants, including green algae, that perform photosynthesis.

Chloroplasts are descendents of blue green bacteria.

It is a symbiosis between two very different kinds of organisms.
05-05-2024 23:42
keepit
★★★★★
(3181)
im a bm,
Thanks.




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