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Chinese Government Discovers Novel Way to Combat Climate Change


Chinese Government Discovers Novel Way to Combat Climate Change29-01-2019 11:05
HarveyH55
★★★☆☆
(985)
https://hackaday.com/2019/01/28/solar-power-is-set-to-get-more-expensive/

Basically, they are cutting producing subsidies for solar panels, which are in fairly high demand globally, because of the climate scare. I wonder if people will start to see the importance of this move. Prices rise as demand exceeds the supply and production. A lot of governments give subsidies and incentives, to install solar. Anyone wanting to take advantage of those incentives, will simply choose an install company, and accept the price quoted, as the going rate. As the climate scare gets more pressing, and the threat of losing out on incentive, people are going to take whatever deal the can, even more, if they want it installed quick. Panels only last 10-15 years (best case, location), and need to be replaced, as there already poor production has dropped to almost useless by then. There is a clear record of when panels were in the highest demand, and simple to just stop production, and let the supply dwindle, as those replacement dates near. 10-15 years is plenty of time to get use to solar, depend on it. I don't think those government incentives to install solar, cover replacement. I'm not sure about the industry, but like anything else, there probably isn't any standard, and many different 'types' and installation methods, each company hoping theirs will become the industry standard. Replacement might not go as smoothly as many would think, and could basically mean removing most everything, to install a more standardized system. If you want or need something bad enough, you'll pay the premium price, and most any seller will take advantage of that as well.

It's many not about homeowners though, but businesses and local governments that took advantage of incentives, and had the acreage of rooftop space to get some return, and both. It's a lot easier for them to simply cut the check, and have someone else work out the details. Since these are the largest consumers, compared to the average home, they are going to set the replacement price.

I also question the logic of the Climate Change supporters in their solar recommendation. Solar panels are still mainly glass, and glass gets broken during catastrophic weather events. Guess your insurance will cover it, if you can afford it. High heat degrades solar panels faster, and the keep pushing the the scorched earth scenario, which further degrades the practical of going solar. A solar installation is already expensive, even with the initial incentives, but there are many hidden costs that go along with them. The last time I read the literature, the claim was that it pays for itself in 7 years, no lifetime, unlimited warranty either. That doesn't cover storm damage or insurance costs, maintenance (got to wash the bird crap off frequently), or the eventual replacement, shortly after it's finally saved you enough to cover the initial cost. Not exactly free energy, cost effective, or renewable, since you have to keep buying a new system.
29-01-2019 20:01
Wake
★★★★★
(4026)
HarveyH55 wrote:
https://hackaday.com/2019/01/28/solar-power-is-set-to-get-more-expensive/

Basically, they are cutting producing subsidies for solar panels, which are in fairly high demand globally, because of the climate scare. I wonder if people will start to see the importance of this move. Prices rise as demand exceeds the supply and production. A lot of governments give subsidies and incentives, to install solar. Anyone wanting to take advantage of those incentives, will simply choose an install company, and accept the price quoted, as the going rate. As the climate scare gets more pressing, and the threat of losing out on incentive, people are going to take whatever deal the can, even more, if they want it installed quick. Panels only last 10-15 years (best case, location), and need to be replaced, as there already poor production has dropped to almost useless by then. There is a clear record of when panels were in the highest demand, and simple to just stop production, and let the supply dwindle, as those replacement dates near. 10-15 years is plenty of time to get use to solar, depend on it. I don't think those government incentives to install solar, cover replacement. I'm not sure about the industry, but like anything else, there probably isn't any standard, and many different 'types' and installation methods, each company hoping theirs will become the industry standard. Replacement might not go as smoothly as many would think, and could basically mean removing most everything, to install a more standardized system. If you want or need something bad enough, you'll pay the premium price, and most any seller will take advantage of that as well.

It's many not about homeowners though, but businesses and local governments that took advantage of incentives, and had the acreage of rooftop space to get some return, and both. It's a lot easier for them to simply cut the check, and have someone else work out the details. Since these are the largest consumers, compared to the average home, they are going to set the replacement price.

I also question the logic of the Climate Change supporters in their solar recommendation. Solar panels are still mainly glass, and glass gets broken during catastrophic weather events. Guess your insurance will cover it, if you can afford it. High heat degrades solar panels faster, and the keep pushing the the scorched earth scenario, which further degrades the practical of going solar. A solar installation is already expensive, even with the initial incentives, but there are many hidden costs that go along with them. The last time I read the literature, the claim was that it pays for itself in 7 years, no lifetime, unlimited warranty either. That doesn't cover storm damage or insurance costs, maintenance (got to wash the bird crap off frequently), or the eventual replacement, shortly after it's finally saved you enough to cover the initial cost. Not exactly free energy, cost effective, or renewable, since you have to keep buying a new system.
While they have heavily propagandized the younger generations these are in general the people least equipped to be able to afford solar panels.
29-01-2019 22:41
HarveyH55
★★★☆☆
(985)
Yeah, but they have parents (where they probably still live), and grandparents, whom probably don't need a whole lot of convincing. Besides, isn't a roof full of solar panels like a big sign, that says, "We care about our planet". I remember Obama gave tax credits, and a bunch of other incentives, probably expired, but likely to be revisited. A lot of green-leaning people in congress. Trump might run with it as well, it's still good for the economy, creates jobs, and gives him a little 'green' credit with the voters, without getting into the climate change crap.

I really wonder how many people actually make money off sell their surplus to the electric companies. I don't know many people that went with the roof solar, but have talk to a few, while out walking my dog. Most say it cut their bill in about half, but some months it's about what they use to pay. Seems like they don't live up to the hype, but not really enough people around to know if that's normal, or maybe these people have some sort of problem with theirs. Of course, it kind of depends on how honest the electric company is about it as well.
29-01-2019 23:05
Into the Night
★★★★★
(8656)
HarveyH55 wrote:
Yeah, but they have parents (where they probably still live), and grandparents, whom probably don't need a whole lot of convincing. Besides, isn't a roof full of solar panels like a big sign, that says, "We care about our planet". I remember Obama gave tax credits, and a bunch of other incentives, probably expired, but likely to be revisited. A lot of green-leaning people in congress. Trump might run with it as well, it's still good for the economy, creates jobs, and gives him a little 'green' credit with the voters, without getting into the climate change crap.

All you are describing is socialism. I, as a taxpayer, am paying for someone else's solar panels. Thanks Obama. Good riddance.
HarveyH55 wrote:
I really wonder how many people actually make money off sell their surplus to the electric companies. I don't know many people that went with the roof solar, but have talk to a few, while out walking my dog. Most say it cut their bill in about half, but some months it's about what they use to pay. Seems like they don't live up to the hype, but not really enough people around to know if that's normal, or maybe these people have some sort of problem with theirs. Of course, it kind of depends on how honest the electric company is about it as well.

Electric grids will buy power where it is cheapest. If they need X watts per second, and they have a choice between paying a bunch of solar power installers their high rates or bringing up the rods on a nuclear plant a bit more, guess which way they're going to go.


The Parrot Killer
30-01-2019 04:33
HarveyH55
★★★☆☆
(985)
Found another interesting solar/wind story...

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/texas-towns-environmental-narcissism-makes-al-gore-happy-while-sticking-its-citizens-with-the-bill

It's about a Texas town, that made the green-commitment in 2012, and now having serious regrets. Apparently, the plan was to sell their surplus, to offset the cost. Unfortunately, none of the other electric companies needed the surplus all that much, when it was available, and cheap natural gas generated energy, further dropped the price of any surplus they could actually sell. The citizens were locked into buying only from the renewable source, which has been getting more expensive, while neighboring towns are paying much less, and also have the option of shopping around for their power provider. Competition helps keep the price down, and stable. The town wasn't entirely grid-free either, as solar/wind isn't 24/7/365. The story didn't go into the point that, after 7 years, and still paying off the initial costs, they are nearing the end of the panels usefulness, and will need to be replacing them. They all won't fail at the same time, just a few, here and there, at first, hardly noticeable. But when they do realize they have a problem, they have panels failing almost daily, and need to pay big bucks, and pay for grid power, while the work is being done. They'd be better of abandoning the silly idea, go back on the grid, and sell the scrap for whatever they can still recover. A failed panel, can still produce electricity, just a lot less than when it was new.




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