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Cases22-04-2020 18:53
keepit
★★★★☆
(1628)
Several studies out of california are showing that there are multiples more exposures to covid 19 than was previously thought. This changes the case fatality rate but it doesn't change the overall death rate in this country which is very high compared to other countries. Why?
The amount of organ damage occurring to asymptomatic patients is still an unknown. Autopsies find that there is organ damage in deceased covid patients. The question is, did the organ damage come as a result of covid or did it come as a result of comorbid disease?
OOYA (out of your a-s) opinions not welcome here. Only evidence based opinions.
Edited on 22-04-2020 18:57
22-04-2020 20:23
HarveyH55
★★★★★
(2199)
I'm pretty sure the organ damage was pre-existing, or occured during emergency treatment. It actually takes time to do this kind of study, and quite a few dead bodies, before they can see a trend, and eliminate all other possible causes. If they had found Covid-19 in the damaged organs, in levels beyond what's in blood samples, it would be significant. I've haven't seen anything, that implies the virus is damaging organs. It's a respiratory infection, and nobody is saying that it's spreading to other organs. If they had strong suspicions, the CDC and WHO, would be screaming about it. Neither want the public to leave home yet, and it would be good reason for tighter restrictions., not relaxing them.
I took enough classes in biology, anatomy, and human physiology, to have a pretty good idea how the body works. I took them to fill my elective course requirements, as I wanted to learn something useful. You know how something works, you know when and what might be wrong, and what needs fixing. Done pretty good staying out of the doctor's office most of my life, and knew when I had no choice.
22-04-2020 20:30
keepit
★★★★☆
(1628)
Harvey,
I didn't see anything in your longwinded answer that was any thing but your unfounded opinion.
22-04-2020 20:46
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7310)
keepit wrote: Harvey, I didn't see anything in your longwinded answer that was any thing but your unfounded opinion.

keepit, I didn't see anything in your brainless response that was anything but sissy whining about Harvey's opinion.


.


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Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

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IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
22-04-2020 22:46
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13024)
keepit wrote:
Several studies out of california are showing that there are multiples more exposures to covid 19 than was previously thought.

So the SOTC lied. What else is new?
keepit wrote:
This changes the case fatality rate but it doesn't change the overall death rate in this country which is very high compared to other countries. Why?

The death rate in the United States is currently 0.000273%. That's low, not high. Italy, on the other hand, is seeing a death rate of 0.000398%. That's higher than ours, but still insignificant.

Still batting 0.000.

keepit wrote:
The amount of organ damage occurring to asymptomatic patients is still an unknown.

Organs heal, dude.
keepit wrote:
Autopsies find that there is organ damage in deceased covid patients.

Duh. That's what killed them.
keepit wrote:
The question is, did the organ damage come as a result of covid or did it come as a result of comorbid disease?

The question is not a question, because that is determined by an autopsy.
keepit wrote:
OOYA (out of your a-s) opinions not welcome here. Only evidence based opinions.

Well, since YOU started this thread with OOYA opinions, I guess you only mean the opinions of others, not yourself.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
23-04-2020 01:56
keepit
★★★★☆
(1628)
ITN,
I just cited a few facts, none of which were opinions of mine.
No OOYA opinions allowed.
23-04-2020 02:23
James___
★★★★★
(2987)
keepit wrote:
ITN,
I just cited a few facts, none of which were opinions of mine.
No OOYA opinions allowed.



it seems that the curve is flattening.
23-04-2020 02:34
keepit
★★★★☆
(1628)
It does seem like it is flattening, but slowly, and there are a huge amount of contagious cases out there. The danger of a resurgance remains.
I don't know if the number of contagious people is flattening. That is where the future problem lies.

The reduced number of daily deaths may be the result of the medical community learning and getting better at treating the patients all the while the virus could be spreading. That would mean more organ damage if organ damage is the case. There are just so many unknowns. It is a new virus. Caution is prudent.
Edited on 23-04-2020 03:00
23-04-2020 02:58
James___
★★★★★
(2987)
keepit wrote:
It does seem like it is flattening, but slowly, and there are a huge amount of contagious cases out there. The danger of a resurgance remains.
I don't know if the number of contagious people is flattening. That is where the future problem lies.

The reduced number of daily deaths may be the result of the medical community learning and getting better at treating the patients all the while the virus spreads. That vould mean more organ damage is if organ damage is the case. There are jsut some many unknowns. It is a new virus.



These guys don't want to know that prevention is possible. After the fact it becomes a blame game.
23-04-2020 04:21
HarveyH55
★★★★★
(2199)
keepit wrote:
Harvey,
I didn't see anything in your longwinded answer that was any thing but your unfounded opinion.


I didn't see where you cited any articles or papers, supporting your opinion that Covid-19 causes organ damage. Trauma treatment of all causes, not just disease, causes organ and tissue damage. It's unavoidable, can't have surgery, without creating a scar. Most aggressive treatments do damage to healthy tissue, we just don't see the scars. Doctors have to cut in to the corpse, to see a lot of it. If the patient survives, a lot of it heals, but some scarring is forever. Which is usually seen as pain, and require medication or more surgeries.
23-04-2020 05:00
keepit
★★★★☆
(1628)
Harvey,
I don't believe i've actually said there is organ damage. I've just cited reports of damage and speculated about possibilities. I've said that there are people on the internet that are reporting organ damage.
I try to word my posts carefully. Hopefully you're read them carefully but it's up to you. You can be as inaccurate as you want, i don't care. I'm doing my thing to report the information as accurately as i can.
23-04-2020 05:08
GasGuzzlerProfile picture★★★★☆
(1731)
keepit wrote:
The amount of organ damage occurring to asymptomatic patients is still an unknown. Autopsies find that there is organ damage in deceased covid patients. The question is, did the organ damage come as a result of covid or did it come as a result of comorbid disease?


and then...

keepit wrote:
I don't believe i've actually said there is organ damage.
23-04-2020 05:14
keepit
★★★★☆
(1628)
GG,
I just reported about a report. That's all. That and ask a couple of questions.
Edited on 23-04-2020 05:15
23-04-2020 05:19
GasGuzzlerProfile picture★★★★☆
(1731)
keepit wrote:
GG,
I just reported about a report. That's all. That and ask a couple of questions.


And I just reported what you reported.


gasguzzler, calling the jet stream the "Norwegian jet stream" is a bigoted statement. -James-
23-04-2020 05:29
James___
★★★★★
(2987)
keepit wrote:
Harvey,
I don't believe i've actually said there is organ damage. I've just cited reports of damage and speculated about possibilities. I've said that there are people on the internet that are reporting organ damage.
I try to word my posts carefully. Hopefully you're read them carefully but it's up to you. You can be as inaccurate as you want, i don't care. I'm doing my thing to report the information as accurately as i can.



I think it's the kidneys that suffer damage. The renal artery from the heart feeds them. The lungs it seems aren't attached to a major artery. And if the kidneys starts failing then that increases both heart rate and blood pressure.
What is becoming more of a concern are blood clots. They can form anywhere and block any artery.
@Harvey and GG, you should know this. I am disappointed. I guess Bicardi Dark didn't let someone see the light, eh?

@keepit, blood clotting in the lungs of which the lungs are considered an organ seems to be one leading cause of death. Why it's becoming known that giving blood thinners helps to save lives of severe cases. Surprisingly, word in the medical community seems to have spread slowly because giving someone blood thinners is a last ditch effort to save their life.
At the same time it seems that the coronavirus causes the body to become inflamed which is a defensive mechanism of the body to fight off disease. Why the blood thinners.
You'll have to understand that both Harvey55 and GasGuzzler are illiterate. It's the only explanation unless they want to say, I am an American. It's their choice.
Edited on 23-04-2020 05:38
23-04-2020 05:35
keepit
★★★★☆
(1628)
Good information James. Thanks again.
23-04-2020 10:23
HarveyH55
★★★★★
(2199)
keepit wrote:
Harvey,
I don't believe i've actually said there is organ damage. I've just cited reports of damage and speculated about possibilities. I've said that there are people on the internet that are reporting organ damage.
I try to word my posts carefully. Hopefully you're read them carefully but it's up to you. You can be as inaccurate as you want, i don't care. I'm doing my thing to report the information as accurately as i can.


You've yet, to 'cite' anything, just generalized, what you claimed to have seen on the internet, but have linked to nothing.

You posted about organ damage in a half dozen different threads, in an alarmist fashion. You seem to think most people are weak and panicky, like yourself, nad it means something. You do realize, that people post a lot of bullshit on social media, not to mention fake news, is an actual thing...
23-04-2020 10:45
HarveyH55
★★★★★
(2199)
James___ wrote:
keepit wrote:
Harvey,
I don't believe i've actually said there is organ damage. I've just cited reports of damage and speculated about possibilities. I've said that there are people on the internet that are reporting organ damage.
I try to word my posts carefully. Hopefully you're read them carefully but it's up to you. You can be as inaccurate as you want, i don't care. I'm doing my thing to report the information as accurately as i can.



I think it's the kidneys that suffer damage. The renal artery from the heart feeds them. The lungs it seems aren't attached to a major artery. And if the kidneys starts failing then that increases both heart rate and blood pressure.
What is becoming more of a concern are blood clots. They can form anywhere and block any artery.
@Harvey and GG, you should know this. I am disappointed. I guess Bicardi Dark didn't let someone see the light, eh?

@keepit, blood clotting in the lungs of which the lungs are considered an organ seems to be one leading cause of death. Why it's becoming known that giving blood thinners helps to save lives of severe cases. Surprisingly, word in the medical community seems to have spread slowly because giving someone blood thinners is a last ditch effort to save their life.
At the same time it seems that the coronavirus causes the body to become inflamed which is a defensive mechanism of the body to fight off disease. Why the blood thinners.
You'll have to understand that both Harvey55 and GasGuzzler are illiterate. It's the only explanation unless they want to say, I am an American. It's their choice.


Gee Dr. James, your understanding of anatomy is astounding... No wonder you need a crap-sack.

The pulmonary artery runs straight from the heart to the lungs. Pretty major artery. You do know the difference between an artery and a vein, right. Arteries always carry blood away from the heart. Of course, I left college about 35 years ago, maybe the plumbing has change a bunch since then, or maybe you are just a special case. You do realize, that not everyone is born, with their organs, in the same positions? Do you realize yet, that surgeons sometimes relocate/reposition organs? Your surgeon did nothing wrong, as you probably have heard, from many doctors, over the past 10 years. Maybe you could hear them, do to your service related hearing loss. Next time, ask them to put it in writing. I still can't imagine why you think a crap-sack is a desirable procedure.
23-04-2020 13:47
keepit
★★★★☆
(1628)
When i say i read something on the internet you don't have to believe me. I don't care. Keep in mind though, i don't have reason to lie. I'm just telling what i've heard. Don't trust my judgement about what is a reliable source or not. I don't care.
23-04-2020 18:05
gfm7175Profile picture★★★★☆
(1103)
GasGuzzler wrote:
keepit wrote:
The amount of organ damage occurring to asymptomatic patients is still an unknown. Autopsies find that there is organ damage in deceased covid patients. The question is, did the organ damage come as a result of covid or did it come as a result of comorbid disease?


and then...

keepit wrote:
I don't believe i've actually said there is organ damage.


Good catch, Guzzler!

So keepit, is there organ damage or not? Still batting 0.000
23-04-2020 18:07
gfm7175Profile picture★★★★☆
(1103)
keepit wrote:
When i say i read something on the internet you don't have to believe me. I don't care. Keep in mind though, i don't have reason to lie. I'm just telling what i've heard. Don't trust my judgement about what is a reliable source or not. I don't care.

Believe me, I don't...
23-04-2020 18:53
keepit
★★★★☆
(1628)
gfm,
That numerator and denominator stuff always confused me! i always tried to add them together and then i got really confused.
Re: the organ damage. I just reported what i heard about organ damage in autopsies. That isn't same as saying what i believe. I don't know yet what to believe. I know the difference is too subtle for you.
I like it when you think i'm batting .000.
Where did you learn about baseball? Where did you learn about anything?
23-04-2020 19:29
HarveyH55
★★★★★
(2199)
keepit wrote:
When i say i read something on the internet you don't have to believe me. I don't care. Keep in mind though, i don't have reason to lie. I'm just telling what i've heard. Don't trust my judgement about what is a reliable source or not. I don't care.


Considering your track record here... I think you are overly trusting, specially of the manipulator-types on here. I've read and seen some bogus Covid-19 stuff on the internet, but failing to find any other similar accounts, figured they were fake. Don't know if it's still up, but there was a YouTube video, suppose to be Wuhan, China, where it should people walking down the street, suddenly falling down, cough, vomiting blood. There three of them in the video I watched. Not sure if it was completely fake/hoax, or something else, misrepresented. Maybe they got gut-shot, or something like that.
23-04-2020 19:36
keepit
★★★★☆
(1628)
I heard some very disturbing news on tv this morning. 2 young people, with covid (i can't remember if they were symptomatic) dropped dead of a stroke.
There is no good news to all this. Yet.
23-04-2020 19:40
gfm7175Profile picture★★★★☆
(1103)
keepit wrote:
gfm,
That numerator and denominator stuff always confused me! i always tried to add them together and then i got really confused.

I believe you. You have shown your mathematical illiteracy here numerous times already.


keepit wrote:
Re: the organ damage. I just reported what i heard about organ damage in autopsies. That isn't same as saying what i believe.

Why even spread it around then, if you don't believe what you are spreading around? But no, you specifically claimed that there was organ damage and then you later denied your claim.

keepit wrote:
I don't know yet what to believe.

You don't have to believe. You just have to gain knowledge about organs, and about how they can be healed.

keepit wrote:
I know the difference is too subtle for you.

No, you just later denied your own claim, as Guzzler so kindly pointed out.

keepit wrote:
I like it when you think i'm batting .000.

You're proud of your complete illiteracy regarding math, science, logic, philosophy, history, immunology, ... ... ... ...?

keepit wrote:
Where did you learn about baseball?

Where did you learn about anything?

No wonder you're illiterate in all of these things. You don't even know how to learn.
23-04-2020 19:41
keepit
★★★★☆
(1628)
I heard some very disturbing news on tv this morning. 2 young people, with covid (i can't remember if they were symptomatic) dropped dead of a stroke.
There is no good news to all this. Yet.
23-04-2020 19:45
gfm7175Profile picture★★★★☆
(1103)
keepit wrote:
I heard some very disturbing news on tv this morning.

That's what it's there for, and you keep on soaking it all in. That's why you are irrationally fearing this virus.

keepit wrote:
2 young people, with covid (i can't remember if they were symptomatic) dropped dead of a stroke.

If I recall correctly, they weren't symptomatic (or were very mildly symptomatic at most). I could be wrong about that.

Maybe it was just a coincidence? You don't have to be old to have a stroke, you know.

keepit wrote:
There is no good news to all this. Yet.

Fear mongering.
23-04-2020 20:02
GasGuzzlerProfile picture★★★★☆
(1731)
keepit wrote:
There is no good news to all this. Yet.


I have found some good news in all this Covid BS.

I find it very encouraging that Americans are sick and tired of NOT working. They want to get back out and start working for their dollar instead of getting it from Uncle Sam. This is great news!


gasguzzler, calling the jet stream the "Norwegian jet stream" is a bigoted statement. -James-
23-04-2020 20:46
keepit
★★★★☆
(1628)
Save it for when it makes sense.
23-04-2020 21:36
GasGuzzlerProfile picture★★★★☆
(1731)
keepit wrote:
Save it for when it makes sense.


When and how the hell did this become about trying to keep every American from receiving covid???!!!

Score one for the liberals, they have successfully change the narrative and scared the living shit out of too many otherwise sensible Americans.

We know people like keepit are in strong support of the economic shutdown simply for the fact he has clearly stated we should only work half as much as we do and only have half as much as we have. (See his thread titled "half")

You got what you wanted to keep it. How do you think it's working out so far?

It was to be a short shutdown to give hospitals time to retool, reorganize, stock up, and expand where they needed to. That has been done. It's now time we went back to work and let our great healthcare workers take care of us if needed.


gasguzzler, calling the jet stream the "Norwegian jet stream" is a bigoted statement. -James-
23-04-2020 22:02
keepit
★★★★☆
(1628)
You say "if needed". Well, you know there is really no if there.
As far as how it is working out, i think it is mismanaged.
There should have been complete isolation for about 20 days early on. That would have taken a huge bite out of covid19. As far as economic inequality, that is really rough and should be managed better. I wouldn't know how to do it however, considering human nature as it is.
23-04-2020 23:21
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13024)
keepit wrote:
When i say i read something on the internet you don't have to believe me. I don't care. Keep in mind though, i don't have reason to lie. I'm just telling what i've heard. Don't trust my judgement about what is a reliable source or not. I don't care.


You have reason to lie. It is the same reason that the newspapers lie.

You are trying to make something out of your worthless life. It's called 'gossip'.

You are fear mongering.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
23-04-2020 23:22
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13024)
keepit wrote:
I heard some very disturbing news on tv this morning. 2 young people, with covid (i can't remember if they were symptomatic) dropped dead of a stroke.
There is no good news to all this. Yet.


That means they didn't die of Covid, although their deaths were probably counted as Covid deaths.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
23-04-2020 23:24
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13024)
keepit wrote:
You say "if needed". Well, you know there is really no if there.
As far as how it is working out, i think it is mismanaged.
There should have been complete isolation for about 20 days early on. That would have taken a huge bite out of covid19. As far as economic inequality, that is really rough and should be managed better. I wouldn't know how to do it however, considering human nature as it is.


Isolation kills people.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
24-04-2020 00:25
HarveyH55
★★★★★
(2199)
It's easy for people who are retired, live in isolation normal, and get a monthly government check, to shit on the rest of society.

The rest of us still have a lot of living to do, don't get a monthly government check, and have bills to pay, dreams to chase, women to defile.

I don't see my self, as growing old, and hiding in fear, hoping to cheat death another day or two, regardless of the cost, to the rest of the world. I want to live every day of my life, do what I want. I know it all comes to an end, eventually, and just want to make the most of it, while I can. I've been fortunate this time, with only minor inconveniences. I never had to stop working, continue to get paid, haven't fallen behind on my bills. 401k sucks, lost $22,000, but still got plenty left. Lot more than I paid in, so can't complain. Won't have to be saving 3 for a dollar store brand dog food coupons, unless I get another dog...
24-04-2020 00:31
gfm7175Profile picture★★★★☆
(1103)
Into the Night wrote:
Isolation kills people.

Many people seem to forget this.




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