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Atmosphere04-09-2020 10:55
duncan61
★★★☆☆
(749)
I always thought water vapour and clouds make the planet habitable by keeping the planet at a reasonable temperature.If we had no atmosphere would we not cook in the direct sunlight and freeze over every night.The poles ice up in winter as they do not receive much sunlight again I have to ask how much difference can .028%->041% of a trace gas matter.IBDM if this is not so please explain what keeps the planet the way it is.You are losing me bro when you suggest that because my CO2 meter is not giving the readings you want it must be faulty and suggesting that Tmiddles has any influence on my mind.I am now in phase 2 trying to discover if the tiny amount of extra CO2 is doing anything and if that anything is bad.


duncan61
04-09-2020 11:47
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3533)
duncan61 wrote:
I always thought water vapour and clouds make the planet habitable ....

Having a bunch of matter in-between something (in this case us, living at the ground level) and a pulsating source of radiant heat (the Sun as the Earth rotates) is going to result in that matter acting as a buffer to some degree.

The gas atmosphere reflects, absorbs and transports(wind & convection) the radiance and thermal energy that is both hitting Earth and leaving it.

This causes was scientists call: MELLOWFICATION

It does not explain or dismiss the question of a planet having a higher or lower mean temperature at the ground level.

ITN/IBD Fraud exposed:  The 2nd LTD add on claiming radiance from cooler bodies can't be absorbed Max Planck debunks, they can't explain:net-thermal-radiation-you-in-a-room-as-a-reference & Proof: no data is valid for IBD or ITN
Edited on 04-09-2020 11:48
04-09-2020 18:20
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7616)
duncan61 wrote:
I always thought water vapour and clouds make the planet habitable by keeping the planet at a reasonable temperature.If we had no atmosphere would we not cook in the direct sunlight and freeze over every night.The poles ice up in winter as they do not receive much sunlight again I have to ask how much difference can .028%->041% of a trace gas matter.IBDM if this is not so please explain what keeps the planet the way it is.You are losing me bro when you suggest that because my CO2 meter is not giving the readings you want it must be faulty and suggesting that Tmiddles has any influence on my mind.I am now in phase 2 trying to discover if the tiny amount of extra CO2 is doing anything and if that anything is bad.

duncan, you seem to be gibbering a bit incomprehensibly there.

Read This

... then let me know if you have any questions.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
04-09-2020 19:28
HarveyH55
★★★★★
(2745)
duncan61 wrote:
I always thought water vapour and clouds make the planet habitable by keeping the planet at a reasonable temperature.If we had no atmosphere would we not cook in the direct sunlight and freeze over every night.The poles ice up in winter as they do not receive much sunlight again I have to ask how much difference can .028%->041% of a trace gas matter.IBDM if this is not so please explain what keeps the planet the way it is.You are losing me bro when you suggest that because my CO2 meter is not giving the readings you want it must be faulty and suggesting that Tmiddles has any influence on my mind.I am now in phase 2 trying to discover if the tiny amount of extra CO2 is doing anything and if that anything is bad.


I don't really think there is really any one thing responsible regulating our planet's temperature, but water probably has the larges role in it. Thermal energy changes water between it's three states. Water vapor can be anywhere from 0.0-0.4 % of the atmosphere. Florida's humidity is in the 90s most of the time. Winter, it drops 20-30%. The surface gets warm enough, and some breeze, quite a bit of water vaporizes, gets carried off, along with thermal energy. It'll stay a vapor, until it loses the thermal energy, and condenses back to a liquid, and falls back to the surface, as fresh water. Sometimes ice, though mostly over Norway. Don't really think it heats or cools the planet, just distributes the thermal energy.
04-09-2020 19:30
keepit
★★★★☆
(1790)
I'm not going to jump to any conclusions because i don't know the actual numbers here but i know that methane is a much stronger GHG than co2 and i know that (i think i know) water vapor is also a much strong GHG than co2. Mars has very little methane in the atmosphere and very little water vapor compared to earth. It seems to me that the lack of water vapor and methane on mars are the reasons mars is so much cooler than earth despite earth having less co2 (co2 being a weak GHG compared to methane and water vapor).
Edited on 04-09-2020 19:48
04-09-2020 21:35
duncan61
★★★☆☆
(749)
I read the link 3 times.I am sure I said the same thing.The atmosphere regulates the planet unlike the moon
04-09-2020 21:43
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7616)
duncan61 wrote:I read the link 3 times.I am sure I said the same thing.The atmosphere regulates the planet unlike the moon

Did you use the word "regulates"?

The atmosphere has no effect on the planet's average global temperature. What magical superpower do you imagine that atmosphere's have to adjust the average global temperature to their liking?

.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
04-09-2020 21:45
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7616)
keepit wrote:... but i know that methane is a much stronger GHG than co2

No, you don't know that. You don't even know what "Greenhouse Effect" is. You are a delusional moron.

.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
04-09-2020 22:30
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3533)
IBdaMann wrote:
The atmosphere has no effect on the planet's average global temperature.

Duncan, IBD's claim here is based on his person beliefs about the laws of thermodynamics which I have demolished on this forum. He refuses to debate them.

But they are not based on anything else. As he doesn't believe it's possible to determine any planetary mean temp he cannot base his assertion on any other than his own priciples.

In short he very mistakenly believes that a planet's mean ground level temp cannot exceed a temperature based on the radiance it receives from the Sun. That two planets with the same solar radiance, that are equally reflective (same emissivity), cannot have different temperatures at ground level due to having different atmospheres.

Venus thoroughly disproves this beyond any pretense that we can't know the temp exactly (it exceed it by 500 degrees).

ITN/IBD Fraud exposed:  The 2nd LTD add on claiming radiance from cooler bodies can't be absorbed Max Planck debunks, they can't explain:net-thermal-radiation-you-in-a-room-as-a-reference & Proof: no data is valid for IBD or ITN
04-09-2020 22:45
keepit
★★★★☆
(1790)
IBD,
I told you. I checked with google. They have a list of morons and delusional people and i'm not on either one of those lists. You are what you read.

You really ought to do your homework on that stuff because you sound kind of stupid calling me a moron and delusional when i'm not. Check with google.
Edited on 04-09-2020 23:18
04-09-2020 23:30
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3533)
keepit wrote:
IBD,
I told you. I checked with google. ...

I checked Wikipedia too. Actually states the keepit thoroughly debunked you with his 2nd Law topic: https://www.climate-debate.com/forum/open-vs-closed-2nd-law-d6-e3041.php

Alex Jones on the other had this to say:
"I grew up in Dallas, Texas, drinking sodium fluoridated water. All the scientific studies show my IQ has been reduced by at least 20 points."

So maybe you need a bit more keepit in your life, and a lot less Alex Jones.

ITN/IBD Fraud exposed:  The 2nd LTD add on claiming radiance from cooler bodies can't be absorbed Max Planck debunks, they can't explain:net-thermal-radiation-you-in-a-room-as-a-reference & Proof: no data is valid for IBD or ITN
05-09-2020 00:54
HarveyH55
★★★★★
(2745)
keepit wrote:
I'm not going to jump to any conclusions because i don't know the actual numbers here but i know that methane is a much stronger GHG than co2 and i know that (i think i know) water vapor is also a much strong GHG than co2. Mars has very little methane in the atmosphere and very little water vapor compared to earth. It seems to me that the lack of water vapor and methane on mars are the reasons mars is so much cooler than earth despite earth having less co2 (co2 being a weak GHG compared to methane and water vapor).


What do other planets really have to do with Earth? The all are different, only Earth is known to have ever supported life. We would never be able to survive long on any other, without bringing our own environment with us, and protective gear.

CO2 is a trace gas, just not enough to even come close to the molecular-magic observed in a lab jar. Should it tip you off, that you believe CO2 to be the weakest GHG known to man, but to save the planet, all we have to do is quit producing it? If your main house is on fire, and your neighbor's $6000 outhouse is on fire which structure would you want the fire department to try and save first. Why focus on CO2, when it's the weakest, smallest threat, compared to other GHGs? It a scam, just like wearing masks, and hiding in the basement is scam. Or Joe Biden is mentally fit to sure as president. Or defunding police, will stop all crime. Or socialism is the only true path to paradise. Really surprised you haven't joined the FreeJoy cult yet, only 10 days left, until Kool-aid day.
05-09-2020 00:58
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3533)
HarveyH55 wrote:
What do other planets really have to do with Earth? The all are different,...
I think the differences are where we can make valuable discoveries about planetary thermodynamics.

Same sun, different distances, different atmospheric compositions.

We can't make sudden changes to the Earth to test a theory but we can look at other planets.
05-09-2020 01:05
duncan61
★★★☆☆
(749)
Earth, being a planet, has substantial gravity which holds onto a substantial atmosphere (i.e. keeps it from drifting away into space). The earth's gravity pulls the atmosphere downward, compressing it against the earth's surface. This acts like a grill press at night, ice bucket during the day. The net effect is to compress both daytime and nighttime temperatures towards the plante's average temperature. The moon has no atmosphere to do that so the moon's daytime temperature exceeds 120C and the nighttime temperature drops below -180C. This represents a 300C temperature swing from daytime to nighttime.
05-09-2020 01:06
duncan61
★★★☆☆
(749)
Is that not what I said.The atmosphere regulates the temperature.My head hurts
05-09-2020 01:17
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3533)
duncan61 wrote:...The earth's gravity pulls the atmosphere downward, compressing it against the earth's surface....
This description which sounds as though there is a before/after is just not correct.

"WORK" is done when an object is moved over a distance. There is no movement here. The atmosphere is compressed already.

Is work being done underground where gravity pulls on rocks and dirt? No.

Gravity is not "compressing" the atmosphere. It is under a constant pressure.
It would be like claiming that walls are lifting up a building.

The bottom line is that gravity is not adding any energy.

duncan61 wrote:...This acts like a grill press at night, ice bucket during the day....
The same thing could be said for a layer of sand covering something. It would be cooler midday and warmer at midnight.
Edited on 05-09-2020 01:22
05-09-2020 02:11
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13933)
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
The atmosphere has no effect on the planet's average global temperature.

Duncan, IBD's claim here is based on his person beliefs about the laws of thermodynamics which I have demolished on this forum.
...deleted remaining post IAW tmiddles ordinance #1....


You have not demolished anything. You are simply denying the laws of thermodynamics.

No argument presented. Denial of science. Bulverism fallacy. Spamming. RQAA.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
05-09-2020 02:12
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13933)
keepit wrote:
IBD,
I told you. I checked with google. They have a list of morons and delusional people and i'm not on either one of those lists. You are what you read.

You really ought to do your homework on that stuff because you sound kind of stupid calling me a moron and delusional when i'm not. Check with google.


Google isn't God. It is not a proof or Universal Truth.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
05-09-2020 02:13
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13933)
tmiddles wrote:...deleted IAW tmiddles ordinance #1...


No argument presented. Answer the questions put to you.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
05-09-2020 02:14
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13933)
tmiddles wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
What do other planets really have to do with Earth? The all are different,...
I think the differences are where we can make valuable discoveries about planetary thermodynamics.

Same sun, different distances, different atmospheric compositions.

We can't make sudden changes to the Earth to test a theory but we can look at other planets.


Denial of the Stefan-Boltzmann law again.

No argument presented. Denial of science. Denial of mathematics. Spamming.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
05-09-2020 02:15
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13933)
duncan61 wrote:
Is that not what I said.The atmosphere regulates the temperature.My head hurts


Actually no. The atmosphere does not regulate the temperature at all. It doesn't moderate either. It is simply part of the mass of Earth.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
05-09-2020 05:39
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7616)
duncan61 wrote:
Is that not what I said.The atmosphere regulates the temperature.My head hurts

It does not regulate the earth's average global temperature. The earth's average global temperature is not modified by the atmosphere therefore it cannot be "regulated."

I'm just saying that you are using the wrong word.

If you were to specify that while the atmosphere does not change/modify/regulate/control/moderate/engineer/govern the temperature but instead "affects" certain temperatures because it is part of the earth (it is part of the mass of the planet) typically in the form of increased nighttime temperatures, decreased daytime temperatures and temperature shifts in the form of weather, that would be accurate/correct.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
05-09-2020 05:41
keepit
★★★★☆
(1790)
The atmosphere influences the temp of the earth.
05-09-2020 06:10
HarveyH55
★★★★★
(2745)
tmiddles wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
What do other planets really have to do with Earth? The all are different,...
I think the differences are where we can make valuable discoveries about planetary thermodynamics.

Same sun, different distances, different atmospheric compositions.

We can't make sudden changes to the Earth to test a theory but we can look at other planets.


That's the long list of similarities you draw on? Each planet is unique, with little in common. What goes on with on of them, isn't going to be exactly the same on all planets.
05-09-2020 06:53
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3533)
HarveyH55 wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
Same sun, different distances, different atmospheric compositions.
Each planet is unique, with little in common.

The perfect case would be if Earth had a twin, exact in every way, but with CO2 levels that were 10 times what we have. Then we'd have this whole issue settled right?

Well we don't have that but we do have two planets we are able to visit and measure directly, Venus and Mars, with quantifiable differences in distance to the sun, composition of their atmospheres and albedo/emmissity.

That is useful!

You really just sound as though you'd like to avoid having this issue researched Harvey.
05-09-2020 07:01
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7616)
tmiddles wrote:The perfect case would be if Earth had a twin, exact in every way, but with CO2 levels that were 10 times what we have. Then we'd have this whole issue settled right?

Well, we would have to know that the emissivities were the same ... and we don't have any way to verify that.

tmiddles wrote:Well we don't have that but we do have two planets we are able to visit and measure directly, Venus and Mars, with quantifiable differences in distance to the sun, composition of their atmospheres and albedo/emmissity.

It doesn't matter what we can do. We need a valid dataset in order to draw any valid conclusions. Most people just aren't omniscient.

tmiddles wrote:You really just sound as though you'd like to avoid having this issue researched Harvey.

You really just sound as though you can only engage in a discussion on the matter if your delusions are treated as omniscience.

Have you ever given any thought to actually pursuing valid data or is that just simply out of the question?


.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
05-09-2020 07:27
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3533)
IBdaMann wrote:
tmiddles wrote:...if Earth had a twin, exact in every way,...
Well, we would have to know...
Do try to pay attention.

IBdaMann wrote:We need a valid dataset...
In my sig.


ITN/IBD Fraud exposed:  The 2nd LTD add on claiming radiance from cooler bodies can't be absorbed Max Planck debunks, they can't explain:net-thermal-radiation-you-in-a-room-as-a-reference & Proof: no data is valid for IBD or ITN
05-09-2020 08:58
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13933)
keepit wrote:
The atmosphere influences the temp of the earth.

No, it doesn't. Not one bit.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
05-09-2020 09:03
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13933)
tmiddles wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
Same sun, different distances, different atmospheric compositions.
Each planet is unique, with little in common.

The perfect case would be if Earth had a twin, exact in every way, but with CO2 levels that were 10 times what we have. Then we'd have this whole issue settled right?

Well we don't have that but we do have two planets we are able to visit and measure directly, Venus and Mars, with quantifiable differences in distance to the sun, composition of their atmospheres and albedo/emmissity.

That is useful!

You really just sound as though you'd like to avoid having this issue researched Harvey.

Mantras 25f...25g...24...15a...15b...

No argument presented. Contrivance as proof. Random number used as data. Spamming RQAA. Answer the questions put to you.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
Edited on 05-09-2020 09:05
05-09-2020 09:05
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13933)
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
tmiddles wrote:...if Earth had a twin, exact in every way,...
Well, we would have to know...
Do try to pay attention.

IBdaMann wrote:We need a valid dataset...
In my sig.



He did pay attention, liar. Your sig is not a proof and is simply part of your spamming.

No argument presented. Argument of the stone fallacy. Spamming. RQAA.
Answer the questions put to you.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
Edited on 05-09-2020 09:05
05-09-2020 09:21
duncan61
★★★☆☆
(749)
I get it now IBDM my head has stopped hurting
05-09-2020 10:11
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3533)
Into the Night wrote:
keepit wrote:
The atmosphere influences the temp of the earth.

No, it doesn't. Not one bit.

Keepit just FYI (I think you know this already) ITN/IBD play a very stupid game where they intentionally allow terminology to be confused in their posts.

We are talking about the bottom of the atmosphere, the ground level. ITN likes to pretend that we aren't and that we are talking about the entirety of Earth from the last molecule to the void of space and down to the molten core.

He doesn't admit this because his intention is to derail discussion not to have one.

"temp of planet" = "temp on planet" = "the ground level/bottom of the atmosphere"

This is the intended meaning in English 99% of the time of course.
05-09-2020 11:22
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7616)
tmiddles wrote: We are talking about the bottom of the atmosphere, the ground level.

Nope. Only you are. You are working on developing your own unique violation of the 2nd law of thermdynamics ... because your previous one went down in flames. As such, you need to delude yourself into believing that your theory is somehow wildly popular and that everyone is just raving about it.

Nobody is interested in your "theory," especially the part whereby you deny the daytime side of the moon.

tmiddles wrote:... and that we are talking about the entirety of Earth from the last molecule to the void of space and down to the molten core.

Nope. Only you dishonestly assign him that bogus position and then attack him for it. That's Mantra 30 by the way. Please listen to the following options because our menu has recently changed.

30) Abuse of opinion
a) Assigning bogus opinion to someone and attacking him for it. (pulling a "TMiddles")


tmiddles wrote: This is the intended meaning in English 99% of the time of course.

Nope. This would be a good time to remind you that you don't speak for anyone but yourself, especially on what other people "mean."

.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
05-09-2020 11:30
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3533)
IBdaMann wrote:
tmiddles wrote: We are talking about the bottom of the atmosphere, ....99% of the time of course.

Nope....


Actually Yup. People decide what they mean with the words they use.

If you're unsure what someone means when they say something try asking.
05-09-2020 11:39
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7616)
tmiddles wrote: Actually Yup. People decide what they mean with the words they use.

Operative words: "PEOPLE decide." They decide, not you.

tmiddles wrote: If you're unsure what someone means when they say something try asking.

Right, but I will ask the speaker, not you.

And when I am certain of what is meant, you can bet that I will be ignoring your revisionism.

.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
Edited on 05-09-2020 11:39
05-09-2020 18:28
HarveyH55
★★★★★
(2745)
tmiddles wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
Same sun, different distances, different atmospheric compositions.
Each planet is unique, with little in common.

The perfect case would be if Earth had a twin, exact in every way, but with CO2 levels that were 10 times what we have. Then we'd have this whole issue settled right?

Well we don't have that but we do have two planets we are able to visit and measure directly, Venus and Mars, with quantifiable differences in distance to the sun, composition of their atmospheres and albedo/emmissity.

That is useful!

You really just sound as though you'd like to avoid having this issue researched Harvey.


We only have a basic understanding of our own planet. It's like you learning how to ride a bicycle (think it's time to try, without training wheels, yet), and think you should be able to hope in the cab of a Semi tractor and haul some freight. The both have wheels, right? You tend to accept a lot of speculation on faith. Which, I guess it makes it easier for you to accept everything on faith. I just keep a more object view, and separate what is common belief, and what is repeatably observable. Your 'science seems to work in reverse of mine. You start out with your desired conclusion, then search for ways to justify your conclusions.

Basically, there are other planets in the solar system, orbiting the same sun, but that's where the similarities end. You just pick and chose which characteristics, best fit you agenda, and ignore the rest of the planet, the solar system. There is a whole lot of other things, going on, influencing the very things you selected, to support your pre-conclusion.
06-09-2020 01:42
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3533)
HarveyH55 wrote:...Your 'science seems to work in reverse of mine....
What's an example of science working for you?

It would seem we could eliminate medicine and physics so I'm curious.
06-09-2020 03:29
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7616)
tgoebbles wrote:What's an example of science working for you?

What's an example of Global Warming working for you?

It would seem we could eliminate economics, physics, civic, math and logic so I'm curious.

.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
06-09-2020 04:49
HarveyH55
★★★★★
(2745)
tmiddles wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:...Your 'science seems to work in reverse of mine....
What's an example of science working for you?

It would seem we could eliminate medicine and physics so I'm curious.


Why eliminate medicine and physics, beyond your limited resources?
06-09-2020 05:22
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3533)
HarveyH55 wrote:
Why eliminate medicine and physics, beyond your limited resources?

Why? I'm not. You are:

You've indicated on this board that you don't "believe" in the determinations made by virologists.
link
HarveyH55 wrote:...Covid-19 vaccine will be as useless as masks and social distancing. ...

And you're here dismissing the ability to study planetary thermodynamics.

Nothing can be known I take it?

So I'm asking you: Along with the rest of Team Denial here on the board you've never indicated your belief that your fellow humans can figure anything out.

So what's an example of a "success story" where modern science and technology have solved a problem? And how is it any different than virology or Planetary science?

IBdaMann wrote:
What's an example of Global Warming working for you?
The warming since the last mini ice age ~12,000 years ago would take first place of course (it's the most recent and dramatic).
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