And In Today's News

James___ wrote: WHhhaaat? A heat wave in the Great Pacific Northwest?

IBdaMann wrote:

James___ wrote: WHhhaaat? A heat wave in the Great Pacific Northwest?

The morons didn't get the memo. This is not a "heat wave." Summer just started a week ago.

One more time. It's correctly called "Summer."

James___ wrote:p.s., these guys might not know that товарешь means "comrade" in communist Russia. Still, they can't spell товарешь.

James___ wrote:
WHhhaaat? A heat wave in the Great Pacific Northwest? Again? I lived in the Puget Sound are for about 25 years and never saw anything like this. Just didn't need air conditioning.
Just can't consider why this is happening because in Florida condominiums are falling to the ground for no reason. Did some forget to prop up the building or is Florida merely sinking into the sea?

https://www.cbsnews.com/video/heat-wave-continues-to-scorch-the-west/#x

Spongy Iris wrote:

James___ wrote:
WHhhaaat? A heat wave in the Great Pacific Northwest? Again? I lived in the Puget Sound are for about 25 years and never saw anything like this. Just didn't need air conditioning.
Just can't consider why this is happening because in Florida condominiums are falling to the ground for no reason. Did some forget to prop up the building or is Florida merely sinking into the sea?

https://www.cbsnews.com/video/heat-wave-continues-to-scorch-the-west/#x

Devastating news about the Champlain Towers in Miami.

https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/video-shows-wing-of-surfside-condo-building-collapse-in-seconds/2479955/

I heard speculation of a sink hole being the main cause...

Plus stories saying, years of standing water on the pool deck had severely damaged the concrete structural slabs below.

James___ wrote:
WHhhaaat? A heat wave in the Great Pacific Northwest? Again? I lived in the Puget Sound are for about 25 years and never saw anything like this.

James___ wrote:
Just didn't need air conditioning.

James___ wrote:
Just can't consider why this is happening because in Florida condominiums are falling to the ground for no reason. Did some forget to prop up the building or is Florida merely sinking into the sea?

IBdaMann wrote:

James___ wrote: WHhhaaat? A heat wave in the Great Pacific Northwest?

The morons didn't get the memo. This is not a "heat wave." Summer just started a week ago.

One more time. It's correctly called "Summer."

Spongy Iris wrote:

James___ wrote:
WHhhaaat? A heat wave in the Great Pacific Northwest? Again? I lived in the Puget Sound are for about 25 years and never saw anything like this. Just didn't need air conditioning.
Just can't consider why this is happening because in Florida condominiums are falling to the ground for no reason. Did some forget to prop up the building or is Florida merely sinking into the sea?

https://www.cbsnews.com/video/heat-wave-continues-to-scorch-the-west/#x

Devastating news about the Champlain Towers in Miami.

https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/video-shows-wing-of-surfside-condo-building-collapse-in-seconds/2479955/

I heard speculation of a sink hole being the main cause...

Plus stories saying, years of standing water on the pool deck had severely damaged the concrete structural slabs below.

James___ wrote:

Spongy Iris wrote:

James___ wrote:
WHhhaaat? A heat wave in the Great Pacific Northwest? Again? I lived in the Puget Sound are for about 25 years and never saw anything like this. Just didn't need air conditioning.
Just can't consider why this is happening because in Florida condominiums are falling to the ground for no reason. Did some forget to prop up the building or is Florida merely sinking into the sea?

https://www.cbsnews.com/video/heat-wave-continues-to-scorch-the-west/#x

Devastating news about the Champlain Towers in Miami.

https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/video-shows-wing-of-surfside-condo-building-collapse-in-seconds/2479955/

I heard speculation of a sink hole being the main cause...

Plus stories saying, years of standing water on the pool deck had severely damaged the concrete structural slabs below.

A lawsuit or 2 was settled. Cracks in the structure were observed. Basis for said lawsuit(s). In Florida, this might be a red flag. A study last year had noted that those condominiums had been sinking since 1990.
Florida is slowly being eroded by the sea. When they have flooding, often enough the water will come from below ground. This is just one issue that Miami is dealing with.

Into the Night wrote:We get them in some summers.

Into the Night wrote:We just don't get days this hot that often.

James___ wrote:And in Canada, it's over 110° F. in a lot of places.

James___ wrote: What they're not saying is that a warming Pacific Ocean might be the cause.

Did some forget to prop up the building or is Florida merely sinking into the sea?

Xadoman wrote:

Did some forget to prop up the building or is Florida merely sinking into the sea?

Being near the sea makes a building specially vulnerable to corrosion problems. Most probably the rebar inside the concrete just gave up in critical areas. As much as I have read from eng-tips forum the collapse was not caused by a sinkhole but it was rather a punch through failure judging from the pictures of a collapsed building. The concrete they used back in the 80ies was also only 3000 psi by the project , nowadays the use at least 5800 psi in high rise building like this that are located near the salt water. Most probably everything was quite underdesigned if compared to todays standards. The slab that supported the parking lot under the building was too thin and the connection to the piers was inadequate. The concrete cover of the rebar was also too thin if you look at the pictures how it was simply pulled off the slab.
Here is the thread about this collapse in eng-tips forum:
https://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=484587

A month after an engineer's report flagged "major structural damage" at Champlain Towers South, the chief building official for the town of Surfside told residents the condominium was "in very good shape," according to minutes from a November 2018 board meeting obtained by the Miami Herald.

Ross Prieto, who left the post last year, had reviewed the engineer's report, the minutes say. Records show condo board member Mara Chouela forwarded a copy to him two days earlier.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/surfside-official-sent-disturbing-report-012055330.html

IBdaMann wrote:

James___ wrote:And in Canada, it's over 110° F. in a lot of places.

And in Canada, it's summer in a lot of places. It was summer in Vancouver, BC. today as well.

James___ wrote: What they're not saying is that a warming Pacific Ocean might be the cause.

They're not saying that because the cause is summer ... and of course the magnetosphere-produced formaldehyde.

Hey, if your project works out, we'll be able to show how the atmospheric formaldehyde depletes the ozone and allows for the tectonic plates to lift out of the ground. I'm standing by.

However, a detailed investigation including meteorological effects such as precipitation scavenging and convection reveals an uncertainty in state-of-the-art model predictions for CH2O in the MBL that is too large for a meaningful test of the current understanding of CH4.
https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1029/2001JD000722

Carbon dioxide (CO2), nitrous oxide (N2O), and methane (CH4) are each important to climate forcing and to the levels of stratospheric ozone (see Chapter 2). In terms of the globally averaged ozone column, additional N2O leads to lower ozone levels, whereas additional CO2 and CH4 lead to higher ozone levels. Ozone depletion to date would have been greater if not for the historical increases in CO2 and CH4. The net impact on ozone recovery and future levels of stratospheric ozone thus depends on the future abundances of these gases. For many of the scenarios used in the most recent Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) Assessment (IPCC, 2013), global ozone will increase to above pre-1980 levels due to future trends in the gases.
https://csl.noaa.gov/assessments/ozone/2014/summary/ch5.html

Into the Night wrote:

IBdaMann wrote:

James___ wrote: WHhhaaat? A heat wave in the Great Pacific Northwest?

The morons didn't get the memo. This is not a "heat wave." Summer just started a week ago.

One more time. It's correctly called "Summer."

We are having a few hotter than usual days, thanks to a strong Utah high and mountain wave compression effects. We get them in some summers. A lot folks around here just go jump in the lake or something.

Most homes do not have air conditioning here. We just don't get days this hot that often.

Xadoman wrote:

Did some forget to prop up the building or is Florida merely sinking into the sea?

Being near the sea makes a building specially vulnerable to corrosion problems. Most probably the rebar inside the concrete just gave up in critical areas. As much as I have read from eng-tips forum the collapse was not caused by a sinkhole but it was rather a punch through failure judging from the pictures of a collapsed building. The concrete they used back in the 80ies was also only 3000 psi by the project , nowadays the use at least 5800 psi in high rise building like this that are located near the salt water. Most probably everything was quite underdesigned if compared to todays standards. The slab that supported the parking lot under the building was too thin and the connection to the piers was inadequate. The concrete cover of the rebar was also too thin if you look at the pictures how it was simply pulled off the slab.
Here is the thread about this collapse in eng-tips forum:
https://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=484587

Despite all the focus on salt water covering coastal streets during seasonal king tides in South Florida, most of the problem floods in Miami-Dade come from well-known sources: rainfall and the vast pool of fresh water under our feet.

In low-lying inland areas, floodwater quickly fills up South Florida's Biscayne aquifer, the freshwater drinking supply just under the ground's surface. One solid rainstorm — the kind Florida is famous for — and water ponds up in streets and yards. When the aquifer is brimming full, there's no place for that groundwater to go but up and onto land. At least until it flows into drainage canals and sewer systems.

Read more here: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/environment/article190900529.html#storylink=cpy
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/environment/article190900529.html

James___ wrote:

Xadoman wrote:

Did some forget to prop up the building or is Florida merely sinking into the sea?

Being near the sea makes a building specially vulnerable to corrosion problems. Most probably the rebar inside the concrete just gave up in critical areas. As much as I have read from eng-tips forum the collapse was not caused by a sinkhole but it was rather a punch through failure judging from the pictures of a collapsed building. The concrete they used back in the 80ies was also only 3000 psi by the project , nowadays the use at least 5800 psi in high rise building like this that are located near the salt water. Most probably everything was quite underdesigned if compared to todays standards. The slab that supported the parking lot under the building was too thin and the connection to the piers was inadequate. The concrete cover of the rebar was also too thin if you look at the pictures how it was simply pulled off the slab.
Here is the thread about this collapse in eng-tips forum:
https://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=484587

Xadoman, you might find this interesting.
With Florida, flood waters will come up through the ground. The Champlain condominiums were considered as having been sinking at a mere couple of millimeters or so since the 1990's. With the amount of weight a building like that weighs, that can create a lot of stress.
You'll probably find out that in the near future there will be more inspections with this in mind. What a better building code will do is to allow buildings to endure the strain of it sinking for a longer period of time.
This link is to flood waters coming up through the ground and it's source is the Miami Herald located in Miami, Florida. So maybe it's a credible source? IBDM and company will attack the messenger.

Despite all the focus on salt water covering coastal streets during seasonal king tides in South Florida, most of the problem floods in Miami-Dade come from well-known sources: rainfall and the vast pool of fresh water under our feet.

In low-lying inland areas, floodwater quickly fills up South Florida's Biscayne aquifer, the freshwater drinking supply just under the ground's surface. One solid rainstorm — the kind Florida is famous for — and water ponds up in streets and yards. When the aquifer is brimming full, there's no place for that groundwater to go but up and onto land. At least until it flows into drainage canals and sewer systems.

Read more here: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/environment/article190900529.html#storylink=cpy
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/environment/article190900529.html

p.s., I sent an email to an editor of the Miami Herald who investigates things.
Their story along with a homeowners group starting the recertification process early might have been to find out why cracks were occurring in their building.
The building inspector for the city lied about the report it seems and said everything was fine and going well. The forthcoming lawsuit could cause that city to have a need to file for bankruptcy. The homeowners association started the recertification process early which the building inspector said that they made a good example of being proactive.
And when he lied, he made the city culpable because the homeowners association was using a process the city required to find out what was happening to their building.

HarveyH55 wrote:

James___ wrote:

Xadoman wrote:

Did some forget to prop up the building or is Florida merely sinking into the sea?

Being near the sea makes a building specially vulnerable to corrosion problems. Most probably the rebar inside the concrete just gave up in critical areas. As much as I have read from eng-tips forum the collapse was not caused by a sinkhole but it was rather a punch through failure judging from the pictures of a collapsed building. The concrete they used back in the 80ies was also only 3000 psi by the project , nowadays the use at least 5800 psi in high rise building like this that are located near the salt water. Most probably everything was quite underdesigned if compared to todays standards. The slab that supported the parking lot under the building was too thin and the connection to the piers was inadequate. The concrete cover of the rebar was also too thin if you look at the pictures how it was simply pulled off the slab.
Here is the thread about this collapse in eng-tips forum:
https://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=484587

Xadoman, you might find this interesting.
With Florida, flood waters will come up through the ground. The Champlain condominiums were considered as having been sinking at a mere couple of millimeters or so since the 1990's. With the amount of weight a building like that weighs, that can create a lot of stress.
You'll probably find out that in the near future there will be more inspections with this in mind. What a better building code will do is to allow buildings to endure the strain of it sinking for a longer period of time.
This link is to flood waters coming up through the ground and it's source is the Miami Herald located in Miami, Florida. So maybe it's a credible source? IBDM and company will attack the messenger.

Despite all the focus on salt water covering coastal streets during seasonal king tides in South Florida, most of the problem floods in Miami-Dade come from well-known sources: rainfall and the vast pool of fresh water under our feet.

In low-lying inland areas, floodwater quickly fills up South Florida's Biscayne aquifer, the freshwater drinking supply just under the ground's surface. One solid rainstorm — the kind Florida is famous for — and water ponds up in streets and yards. When the aquifer is brimming full, there's no place for that groundwater to go but up and onto land. At least until it flows into drainage canals and sewer systems.

Read more here: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/environment/article190900529.html#storylink=cpy
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/environment/article190900529.html

p.s., I sent an email to an editor of the Miami Herald who investigates things.
Their story along with a homeowners group starting the recertification process early might have been to find out why cracks were occurring in their building.
The building inspector for the city lied about the report it seems and said everything was fine and going well. The forthcoming lawsuit could cause that city to have a need to file for bankruptcy. The homeowners association started the recertification process early which the building inspector said that they made a good example of being proactive.
And when he lied, he made the city culpable because the homeowners association was using a process the city required to find out what was happening to their building.

So, instead of spending HOA funds, to do the evaluation/inspection/repair, they hoped the city would pick up the tab, and liability. Looking forward to years of finger pointing a denial.

Mostly, I don't think Florida is a high-rise state. The ground isn't really stable enough to support the weight. The high winds will add stress. The torrential rains can saturate the ground, causing some instability as well. Adds up over the decades.