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3d drawing program.


3d drawing program.09-05-2019 05:40
dehammer
★★★☆☆
(431)
Anyone know of a decent, free/cheap, easy to learn 3d drawing program.
09-05-2019 07:35
HarveyH55
★★★☆☆
(823)
I recently was looking for the same thing. Bought a 3d printer back in march, and will eventually be wanting to design my own parts. Well, probably find similar things on the internet, modify or combine them, to fit my needs. I'm more like a pirate with some things like that. Do the same with electronics, and microcontroller programming. Why re-invent the wheel...

Anyway, there are quite a few open-source, and free 3D programs available, Google will help you find some. Basically, it depends on what you want to do with the 3d drawings. I wanted to make 3D models, to print in plastic. I don't really need a full package program, not serious enough to buy. Just learning to use the printer is a wild ride, and have spent much time on the three programs I downloaded. I know one, called Blender, probably isn't going to be for me. It's more for graphics and animation. I'm sure it's got great modeling tools, but way too many other things going on. Much more complex than I need.
FreeCad sounded good, but it's a huge download, and was successful downloading it, and it won't resume after a few tries.

Seems like browser-based CAD is the thing these days, lot of options. Not real sure if you need to be online to use them, or how they work them, but they are free as well. I've got slow internet, and sometimes work, where there is no internet, so didn't look into them.

When I was looking, I found a 3D printing site, that had a comparison on modeling programs. Did a Google search, because I wasn't seeing anything I liked, mostly because they focused on the paid programs on online offerings. I wanted something small, free, and stand alone.

Really haven't done much with the ones I have, the printer is challenge enough for now, but it's going a lot better. My first spool of filament turned out to be bad (bought cheapest). Tried drying it out in a food dehydrator, which improved it some, but still has bad spots, where it's very brittle (shouldn't break at all). I've got a two new spools, and got the printer cleaned up, mostly undid, all the things I changed, for the bad filament. PETG sounded good, but then I start looking at settings and such, and looks more like it'll be another nightmare, until I get it figured out. Some build surfaces it likes too well, and will be near impossible to get it free. Others, it don't stick at all. It's really a narrow working temperature too, just a few degrees, between layers not sticking together, and warping, sagging, and stringing. Going to stick with ABS for a while longer, went through hell learning on a bad spool, so some good ABS should work well.

Can't really give you a specific program yet, since I haven't used them enough to know what's good. There are a lot of free choices, and it really depends on what yo want to do with it. It's a big field, most of them have a specific use in mind, but could still be used for most anything, just might be better options.
09-05-2019 08:30
Into the Night
★★★★★
(8186)
dehammer wrote:
Anyone know of a decent, free/cheap, easy to learn 3d drawing program.


Depends on what you want to draw.

I find general modeling for animation purposes, rigging, etc. can be best done with Blender. It takes awhile to learn it though.

For 3D cad programs, I recommend FreeCAD.

Both of these run on linux or Windows and are open source.
Both also produce files compatible with 3D print slicers if you ever get into that.

Blender is huge and difficult to learn. It's almost a life study on it's own. You are right. It is designed for freeform modeling, rigging, and animation. It is useful for making avatars for those who are into gaming, particularly VR gaming. Blender sucks for 3D parts modelling. I've seen some people fight with to get it to do that though.


The Parrot Killer
Edited on 09-05-2019 08:34
09-05-2019 08:32
Into the Night
★★★★★
(8186)
HarveyH55 wrote:
I recently was looking for the same thing. Bought a 3d printer back in march, and will eventually be wanting to design my own parts. Well, probably find similar things on the internet, modify or combine them, to fit my needs. I'm more like a pirate with some things like that. Do the same with electronics, and microcontroller programming. Why re-invent the wheel...

Anyway, there are quite a few open-source, and free 3D programs available, Google will help you find some. Basically, it depends on what you want to do with the 3d drawings. I wanted to make 3D models, to print in plastic. I don't really need a full package program, not serious enough to buy. Just learning to use the printer is a wild ride, and have spent much time on the three programs I downloaded. I know one, called Blender, probably isn't going to be for me. It's more for graphics and animation. I'm sure it's got great modeling tools, but way too many other things going on. Much more complex than I need.
FreeCad sounded good, but it's a huge download, and was successful downloading it, and it won't resume after a few tries.

Seems like browser-based CAD is the thing these days, lot of options. Not real sure if you need to be online to use them, or how they work them, but they are free as well. I've got slow internet, and sometimes work, where there is no internet, so didn't look into them.

When I was looking, I found a 3D printing site, that had a comparison on modeling programs. Did a Google search, because I wasn't seeing anything I liked, mostly because they focused on the paid programs on online offerings. I wanted something small, free, and stand alone.

Really haven't done much with the ones I have, the printer is challenge enough for now, but it's going a lot better. My first spool of filament turned out to be bad (bought cheapest). Tried drying it out in a food dehydrator, which improved it some, but still has bad spots, where it's very brittle (shouldn't break at all). I've got a two new spools, and got the printer cleaned up, mostly undid, all the things I changed, for the bad filament. PETG sounded good, but then I start looking at settings and such, and looks more like it'll be another nightmare, until I get it figured out. Some build surfaces it likes too well, and will be near impossible to get it free. Others, it don't stick at all. It's really a narrow working temperature too, just a few degrees, between layers not sticking together, and warping, sagging, and stringing. Going to stick with ABS for a while longer, went through hell learning on a bad spool, so some good ABS should work well.

Can't really give you a specific program yet, since I haven't used them enough to know what's good. There are a lot of free choices, and it really depends on what yo want to do with it. It's a big field, most of them have a specific use in mind, but could still be used for most anything, just might be better options.


It's actually worth learning FreeCAD, despite the download problems that can sometimes occur on slower network connections. Once downloaded, it's pretty reliable. There are some great tutorials to get you started as well.


The Parrot Killer
09-05-2019 09:09
dehammer
★★★☆☆
(431)
I want to try to draw my design to get people interested enough to at least give it a chance. I had the idea that I might try to get it to a few science teachers who live in the right kind of area to see if they could get their students to take it on as a science project.
09-05-2019 18:05
HarveyH55
★★★☆☆
(823)
A 2D drawing program would probably serve just as well. You are really selling a concept, and from the scale, I don't think dimensionally accurate, or many of the other things working in 3D will be all that useful. You really haven't worked out the details you'd need for a 3D representation anyway. Just my opinion of course, but MS Paint works well enough, should already be on your computer, as part of Windows. Apple has something as well, but I've avoided their products, and don't waste much time reading about them. Never really used MS Paint much, I'm a little more artistic, needed more flexibility, and went with CorelDraw/Paint.
09-05-2019 18:56
Into the Night
★★★★★
(8186)
HarveyH55 wrote:
A 2D drawing program would probably serve just as well. You are really selling a concept, and from the scale, I don't think dimensionally accurate, or many of the other things working in 3D will be all that useful. You really haven't worked out the details you'd need for a 3D representation anyway. Just my opinion of course, but MS Paint works well enough, should already be on your computer, as part of Windows. Apple has something as well, but I've avoided their products, and don't waste much time reading about them. Never really used MS Paint much, I'm a little more artistic, needed more flexibility, and went with CorelDraw/Paint.


I just use xfig for my 2D drawings. It runs on linux. It's an oldie, but a goodie. (Yes, I know, I'm an old fuddy-duddy).

There are other, newer 2D cad programs out there for both Windows and linux.

Of course, you could always just draw it with pen or pencil, even on a paper napkin. Many a idea has passed to an investor that way!


The Parrot Killer
Edited on 09-05-2019 18:58
10-05-2019 04:29
dehammer
★★★☆☆
(431)
I am going crazy trying to learn the programs. Blender tutorials are 5 years old and half of the time they tell you to do things, the interface does something different. All the ms paint tutorials I have tried have people that are so boring it drives me crazy. Why does it take them 5 minutes to say hello.
10-05-2019 18:43
Into the Night
★★★★★
(8186)
dehammer wrote:
I am going crazy trying to learn the programs. Blender tutorials are 5 years old and half of the time they tell you to do things, the interface does something different. All the ms paint tutorials I have tried have people that are so boring it drives me crazy. Why does it take them 5 minutes to say hello.


Blender is a lousy tool for 3D cad.
MsPaint is simple to learn, at least for someone that can find the smiley faces here.


The Parrot Killer
10-05-2019 19:04
James___
★★★★☆
(1381)
dehammer wrote:
Anyone know of a decent, free/cheap, easy to learn 3d drawing program.


To draw something like this? If no image is shown then climate-debate did not allow it to be uploaded.

edited to add link. This is a 2 dimensional image. It has no depth as your monitor is 2 dimensional. If a person infers that there are 3 dimensions, I can neither confirm nor deny what another person claims. I am not responsible for other people's claims or religious beliefs.
I may or may not be designing a trebuchet. I also may or may not be building said trebuchet.

https://qq0u.app.link/O8V71801zW
Edited on 10-05-2019 19:35
10-05-2019 19:24
Into the Night
★★★★★
(8186)
James___ wrote:
dehammer wrote:
Anyone know of a decent, free/cheap, easy to learn 3d drawing program.


To draw something like this? If no image is shown then climate-debate did not allow it to be uploaded.

edited to add link. This is a 2 dimensional image. It has no depth as your monitor is 2 dimensional. If a person infers that there are 3 dimensions, I can neither confirm nor deny what another person claims. I am not responsible for other people's claims or religious beliefs.
I may or may not be designing a trebuchet. I also may or may not be building said trebuchet.

https://qq0u.app.link/O8V71801zW


Cool machines. One guy in the midwest built one to hurl old cars. Another built one in the UK that hurls blaming balls.


The Parrot Killer
10-05-2019 22:07
James___
★★★★☆
(1381)
dehammer wrote:
Anyone know of a decent, free/cheap, easy to learn 3d drawing program.



If you don't have access to a good enough computer that won't matter. I use an iMac that has a 3.3 GHz processor, 16 gb of ram and over 1 tb of memory. What matters most is the processor and ram.
With what I'm designing, I am using the free version of SketchUp. SketchUp Pro has a lot more features. As it is, I have some problems because of possibly not enough memory. The processor might be on the slow side as well.
I haven't tried using Blender which is also a 3D rendering program. I've seen where some people like that one better.
10-05-2019 22:16
Into the Night
★★★★★
(8186)
Blender is actually a collection of many tools, not just a rendering engine.

It has a modelling editor (probably what you are thinking of as the 'render engine', it has rigging tools, scaling tools, animation tools, animation lighting tools, even a few landscape editors.

Doesn't do so well for designing machine parts, though.
11-05-2019 00:59
James___
★★★★☆
(1381)
dehammer wrote:
Anyone know of a decent, free/cheap, easy to learn 3d drawing program.



I go to my local library. Is having such facilities available at no cost to me socialism or communism? It's just not right. I should be paying for this. Between the classes offered and being able to do 3D printing. Although with the printer I'd need to supply my own materials because that can be somewhat expensive.
I'm also going to be learning how to make and edit movies using their stuff (not recording equipment though).

https://www.lexpublib.org/events/digitalstudio
11-05-2019 05:33
dehammer
★★★☆☆
(431)
FINALLY found a tutorial that has up-to-date information.
11-05-2019 05:55
James___
★★★★☆
(1381)
HarveyH55 wrote:
Why re-invent the wheel...




Because there's no YouTube?
https://besslerwheel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page
11-05-2019 18:17
HarveyH55
★★★☆☆
(823)
James___ wrote:
dehammer wrote:
Anyone know of a decent, free/cheap, easy to learn 3d drawing program.



I go to my local library. Is having such facilities available at no cost to me socialism or communism? It's just not right. I should be paying for this. Between the classes offered and being able to do 3D printing. Although with the printer I'd need to supply my own materials because that can be somewhat expensive.
I'm also going to be learning how to make and edit movies using their stuff (not recording equipment though).

https://www.lexpublib.org/events/digitalstudio


Socialism, I believe, since everyone who pays taxes, pays for all the freebies... Get a job, then you will be paying for it. There are plenty of free programs on the internet for making/editing movies. 3D printing, at the library? Even small things take a long time to print (about an hour), there are also quite a few fails, as you get everything dialed in, to get a decent print. PLA is the only material I've seen so far, that doesn't out-gas noxious, potentially harmful fumes. I'd have to guess that someone is there to help out, and sort of watch over things, so people don't do silly things, and keep thing moving smoothly. A 1 kg spool (2.2 lbs) of filament is under $20 USD, lasts a long time, likely a week or so. of continuous use.

Most of my movies, I just did the bare minimal to make them small, for uploading to YouTube, but retain as much detail as possible. Most of the free programs I've tried, have many more features. There were a couple, that were way more complex, much more than I would ever need or use. I've got around 50 videos online.
11-05-2019 22:04
Into the Night
★★★★★
(8186)
HarveyH55 wrote:
James___ wrote:
dehammer wrote:
Anyone know of a decent, free/cheap, easy to learn 3d drawing program.



I go to my local library. Is having such facilities available at no cost to me socialism or communism? It's just not right. I should be paying for this. Between the classes offered and being able to do 3D printing. Although with the printer I'd need to supply my own materials because that can be somewhat expensive.
I'm also going to be learning how to make and edit movies using their stuff (not recording equipment though).

https://www.lexpublib.org/events/digitalstudio


Socialism, I believe, since everyone who pays taxes, pays for all the freebies... Get a job, then you will be paying for it. There are plenty of free programs on the internet for making/editing movies. 3D printing, at the library? Even small things take a long time to print (about an hour), there are also quite a few fails, as you get everything dialed in, to get a decent print. PLA is the only material I've seen so far, that doesn't out-gas noxious, potentially harmful fumes. I'd have to guess that someone is there to help out, and sort of watch over things, so people don't do silly things, and keep thing moving smoothly. A 1 kg spool (2.2 lbs) of filament is under $20 USD, lasts a long time, likely a week or so. of continuous use.

Most of my movies, I just did the bare minimal to make them small, for uploading to YouTube, but retain as much detail as possible. Most of the free programs I've tried, have many more features. There were a couple, that were way more complex, much more than I would ever need or use. I've got around 50 videos online.


The library, the public schools, the post roads (state and federal highways and city and county streets), the military, and other services like these could be argued to be socialism, but remember they are all built because we as a people want them to be built and maintained by the government. We volunteer to pay for these services. We even enshrined control of these things to various constitutions. We gave the government that power through their constitutions. If the constitution is destroyed, that power goes with it.

Under socialism, as described by the Church of Karl Marx, there is no volunteering, there is no control of the government, there is only the rule of the Dictator or the Committee.

You will find that under such regimes, these services are quite lacking or nonexistent, except of course for the military.


The Parrot Killer
11-05-2019 23:29
IBdaMann
★★★★★
(3895)
Into the Night wrote:The library, the public schools, the post roads (state and federal highways and city and county streets), the military, and other services like these could be argued to be socialism, but remember they are all built because we as a people want them to be built and maintained by the government. We volunteer to pay for these services. We even enshrined control of these things to various constitutions. We gave the government that power through their constitutions. If the constitution is destroyed, that power goes with it.


Yes, We the People hold the power and it is from We the People that the supreme law of the land derives its authority.

The United States was founded on an underlying concept of commonwealth but we don't use this word in common parlance anymore to mean "owned by the people, administered by the government." The whole idea of a Federal Government, for example, is to provide "common services" for the rest of the States such as unified representation, the common defense, etc..

Essentially, the Federal Government exists to serve the States and the People, not the other way around. Under Marxism, it *is* the other way around, with the people existing to serve the Revolution (which never ends) as determined by the dictator.

The opening of a public library or the erection of a statue in the US is preceded by a vote to authorize it as well as a vote for a bond measure/tax to fund it and to maintain it.

The opening of a public library or the erection of a statue under Marxism is simply mandated by fiat and both money and labor are exacted from the people to build and maintain it. In such a case, the library or statue could possibly be for the exclusive use of the dictator, not the public.

Taxes approved by democratic vote do not amount to Marxism. Marxism does not hold a monopoly on the public good. In fact, Marxism only pays vociferous lip service to the common good but never delivers in practice (we've been watching the Venezuela train wreck for decades). The United States is the world economic power. Enough said.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
11-05-2019 23:45
HarveyH55
★★★☆☆
(823)
Into the Night wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
James___ wrote:
dehammer wrote:
Anyone know of a decent, free/cheap, easy to learn 3d drawing program.



I go to my local library. Is having such facilities available at no cost to me socialism or communism? It's just not right. I should be paying for this. Between the classes offered and being able to do 3D printing. Although with the printer I'd need to supply my own materials because that can be somewhat expensive.
I'm also going to be learning how to make and edit movies using their stuff (not recording equipment though).

https://www.lexpublib.org/events/digitalstudio


Socialism, I believe, since everyone who pays taxes, pays for all the freebies... Get a job, then you will be paying for it. There are plenty of free programs on the internet for making/editing movies. 3D printing, at the library? Even small things take a long time to print (about an hour), there are also quite a few fails, as you get everything dialed in, to get a decent print. PLA is the only material I've seen so far, that doesn't out-gas noxious, potentially harmful fumes. I'd have to guess that someone is there to help out, and sort of watch over things, so people don't do silly things, and keep thing moving smoothly. A 1 kg spool (2.2 lbs) of filament is under $20 USD, lasts a long time, likely a week or so. of continuous use.

Most of my movies, I just did the bare minimal to make them small, for uploading to YouTube, but retain as much detail as possible. Most of the free programs I've tried, have many more features. There were a couple, that were way more complex, much more than I would ever need or use. I've got around 50 videos online.


The library, the public schools, the post roads (state and federal highways and city and county streets), the military, and other services like these could be argued to be socialism, but remember they are all built because we as a people want them to be built and maintained by the government. We volunteer to pay for these services. We even enshrined control of these things to various constitutions. We gave the government that power through their constitutions. If the constitution is destroyed, that power goes with it.

Under socialism, as described by the Church of Karl Marx, there is no volunteering, there is no control of the government, there is only the rule of the Dictator or the Committee.

You will find that under such regimes, these services are quite lacking or nonexistent, except of course for the military.


We had all of those things, except the military, before the government stepped in, and took over funding. It was for the lack, or the need of these things, some people wanted better, and felt everyone was entitled. Libraries were mostly donated books, usually in poor shape, outdated. Still plenty good, for the cost (free). Some people felt that libraries should have all new books, just like at the bookstore, up to date, without the stains and missing pages. Not hard to get enough support, but it didn't stop there. Bigger libraries, more services, more locations, more expensive.

Public schools did well enough to teach kids the basic thing. Most parents have high ambitions for their children. Instead of sending there kids off to a private school of higher learning (expensive), they thought it would be better to bring the higher learning to their local school, and have everyone pick up the tab. Seems reasonable, except, about the same small percentage of those student, who could have been sent off to private school by rich mom and dad, are the only ones who really benefit from the added expense. Lot more jobs and careers available, that don't require even a high school diploma. People with a college degree tend jump from one job to another more frequently.
Basically, we get scammed into giving up our paychecks and our freedoms all the time.

Welfare and food stamps are a great example. It's a good thing to help out people in a bad way, of course. But how many decades does it take to help an individual get back on their feet? America is popular immigration destination, because anyone can get on these programs, least for a little while, with little problem. If you learn the system, you can keep those benefits for a long time. It was never a bad idea to help out, but it should have stayed on a local level, hard to stick hand out constant, for friends, relatives, and neighbors to fill. Easier to find job, and pay your own way, quick as possible.
12-05-2019 21:54
Into the Night
★★★★★
(8186)
HarveyH55 wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
James___ wrote:
dehammer wrote:
Anyone know of a decent, free/cheap, easy to learn 3d drawing program.



I go to my local library. Is having such facilities available at no cost to me socialism or communism? It's just not right. I should be paying for this. Between the classes offered and being able to do 3D printing. Although with the printer I'd need to supply my own materials because that can be somewhat expensive.
I'm also going to be learning how to make and edit movies using their stuff (not recording equipment though).

https://www.lexpublib.org/events/digitalstudio


Socialism, I believe, since everyone who pays taxes, pays for all the freebies... Get a job, then you will be paying for it. There are plenty of free programs on the internet for making/editing movies. 3D printing, at the library? Even small things take a long time to print (about an hour), there are also quite a few fails, as you get everything dialed in, to get a decent print. PLA is the only material I've seen so far, that doesn't out-gas noxious, potentially harmful fumes. I'd have to guess that someone is there to help out, and sort of watch over things, so people don't do silly things, and keep thing moving smoothly. A 1 kg spool (2.2 lbs) of filament is under $20 USD, lasts a long time, likely a week or so. of continuous use.

Most of my movies, I just did the bare minimal to make them small, for uploading to YouTube, but retain as much detail as possible. Most of the free programs I've tried, have many more features. There were a couple, that were way more complex, much more than I would ever need or use. I've got around 50 videos online.


The library, the public schools, the post roads (state and federal highways and city and county streets), the military, and other services like these could be argued to be socialism, but remember they are all built because we as a people want them to be built and maintained by the government. We volunteer to pay for these services. We even enshrined control of these things to various constitutions. We gave the government that power through their constitutions. If the constitution is destroyed, that power goes with it.

Under socialism, as described by the Church of Karl Marx, there is no volunteering, there is no control of the government, there is only the rule of the Dictator or the Committee.

You will find that under such regimes, these services are quite lacking or nonexistent, except of course for the military.


We had all of those things, except the military, before the government stepped in, and took over funding.

No, you won't. I will give examples below.
HarveyH55 wrote:
It was for the lack, or the need of these things, some people wanted better, and felt everyone was entitled.

There IS an entitlement mentality out there today. That was not the case just 60 years ago.
HarveyH55 wrote:
Libraries were mostly donated books, usually in poor shape, outdated. Still plenty good, for the cost (free).

Still need a place to keep them, and a way for the public to use them. Libraries are more than just a pile of books. They are a place to keep them, and a librarian must be paid to maintain them and keep track of those who borrow them. Otherwise, the library is inaccessible and the books get taken and never returned or just destroyed.
HarveyH55 wrote:
Some people felt that libraries should have all new books, just like at the bookstore, up to date, without the stains and missing pages. Not hard to get enough support, but it didn't stop there. Bigger libraries, more services, more locations, more expensive.

Libraries have expanded their services because information comes in a myriad different forms of media now.
HarveyH55 wrote:
Public schools did well enough to teach kids the basic thing.

Key word: PUBLIC. That means government funded. The people got together, built the schoolhouse, hired the teacher, and continue to pay for its presence in the community. That's the government in action. Everyone benefits, too. Business can hire people that actually have some semblance of reading and writing and can do simple math. Back then, schools were MUCH better at teaching that stuff.
HarveyH55 wrote:
Most parents have high ambitions for their children. Instead of sending there kids off to a private school of higher learning (expensive),

They still can. Nothing has changed there either.
HarveyH55 wrote:
they thought it would be better to bring the higher learning to their local school,

No, the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, which has no authority in this area, decided to step in and dictate the curriculum in schools. The schools have been dumbed down to the point of being almost useless.
HarveyH55 wrote:
and have everyone pick up the tab.

Everyone always picked up the tab with public schools. Nothing's changed there. Everyone benefited from the school's presence in the community too.
HarveyH55 wrote:
Seems reasonable, except, about the same small percentage of those student, who could have been sent off to private school by rich mom and dad, are the only ones who really benefit from the added expense.

They still can.
HarveyH55 wrote:
Lot more jobs and careers available, that don't require even a high school diploma.

They do, however, require a certain ability to read, write, or do some simple math. How can you fill out the restaurant ticket, split it the three ways the patrons want to split it, take the money and make change with the math? How can you follow enough instructions on you bus website to get a monthly pass so you can get to work, or sign a rental agreement for your apartment without the ability to read. I think you are taking way too much for granted.
HarveyH55 wrote:
People with a college degree tend jump from one job to another more frequently.

This is irrelevant, and is not trackable. It is also a compositional error involving people...bigotry.
HarveyH55 wrote:
Basically, we get scammed into giving up our paychecks and our freedoms all the time.

True, but not for the reasons you describe here.
HarveyH55 wrote:
Welfare and food stamps are a great example.

They ARE socialism. Lumping these in with other services is a false equivalence.
HarveyH55 wrote:
It's a good thing to help out people in a bad way, of course. But how many decades does it take to help an individual get back on their feet?

Anywhere from 2 hours to never. Before government was involved in 'welfare', such help was available (and still is) through religious organizations, friendly societies, and even unions.
HarveyH55 wrote:
America is popular immigration destination, because anyone can get on these programs, least for a little while, with little problem.

Yes, we are attracting a lot of bums. The Democrats like these bums because they vote Democrat to continue to get their handouts.
HarveyH55 wrote:
It was never a bad idea to help out, but it should have stayed on a local level, hard to stick hand out constant, for friends, relatives, and neighbors to fill. Easier to find job, and pay your own way, quick as possible.

This is exactly what religions, friendly societies, unions, and various local community aid programs did. They still do. The problem is purely the FEDERAL welfare programs. The federal government was never given any authority by the Constitution to implement such programs. This is socialism. It forces money from wealth creators and gives it to those who are not productive. It is theft. It is socialism in the United States.

Religions, friendly societies, and even some unions are volunteer organizations the depend on donations. The Red Cross is an excellent of a friendly society that serves those who are injured. Goodwill Industries is a friendly society that puts people who otherwise can't hold jobs due to lack of training to work, and teaches them how to work. Many of these go out and hold jobs elsewhere in the community because of Goodwill Industries. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints administers food, clothing, helps to pay the rent, or anything else that anyone in the community (not just Church members!) might need. The program is administered by the Bishop of each ward, and he decides when someone is simply sponging and lazy, and will cut off aid to that person.

Much of the poverty these days is the result of drug use. Drugs take away any incentive to work. They must steal from others, either through a government program or directly, to support their lifestyle. Democrats are only too willing to keep them there, because they can be bused from poll to poll to vote many times. They are desperate for the money and easily controlled.


The Parrot Killer




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