33 degrees C
| 23-09-2016 20:02 | |
Into the Night ★★★★★(22969) |
jwoodward48 wrote: 1) Can you measure the temperature of the globe? No. 2) Are you talking about just the surface or the whole planet? 3) Albedo changes with every square foot. How are you determining the albedo of the whole planet? The Parrot Killer Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan Edited on 23-09-2016 20:03 |
| 23-09-2016 20:28 | |
| jwoodward48★★★★☆ (1537) |
I'm pretty sure that the Earth's surface is on average warmer than the Moon's. That's not disputed. |
| 23-09-2016 21:06 | |
IBdaMann ★★★★★(14954) |
jwoodward48 wrote: I'm pretty sure that the Earth's surface is on average warmer than the Moon's. That's not disputed. It's certainly not disputed. Stefan-Boltzmann has answered that question and everyone goes with that. Oh, the earth and the moon are of the same average temperature. Your being "pretty sure" had no effect on it being correct or not. Wow, deja-vu! I just got hit by that feeling that you and I have discussed Stefan-Boltzmann before. . I don't think i can [define it]. I just kind of get a feel for the phrase. - keepit A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist. The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank :*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist |
| 23-09-2016 22:14 | |
| jwoodward48★★★★☆ (1537) |
What is the Earth's average surface temperature? What is the Moon's? |
| 23-09-2016 22:16 | |
| IBdaMann★★★★★ (14954) |
jwoodward48 wrote:What is the Earth's average surface temperature? What is the Moon's? No one has been able to compute the earth's to any useful accuracy. The moon would be somewhat close to the Stefan-Boltzmann value. . I don't think i can [define it]. I just kind of get a feel for the phrase. - keepit A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist. The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank :*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist |
| 23-09-2016 22:24 | |
| jwoodward48★★★★☆ (1537) |
But do you really think that the average surface temperature of Earth is that cool? It doesn't seem like the measurements could off by that much. I mean, that's just preposterous. |
| 23-09-2016 22:42 | |
| IBdaMann★★★★★ (14954) |
You have confused me.IBdaMann wrote:No one has been able to compute the earth's [average global surface temperature] to any useful accuracy. jwoodward48 wrote: But do you really think that the average surface temperature of Earth is that cool? <confused> Please elaborate. IBdaMann wrote: It doesn't seem like the measurements could off by that much. I mean, that's just preposterous. Please elaborate. . I don't think i can [define it]. I just kind of get a feel for the phrase. - keepit A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist. The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank :*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist |
| 23-09-2016 22:49 | |
| jwoodward48★★★★☆ (1537) |
I kind of figure that the margins of error for the temperature of Earth must be less than 33C, right? |
| 24-09-2016 00:46 | |
| Into the Night★★★★★ (22969) |
jwoodward48 wrote: There are several problems with the 33C idea. First, the effective temperature coming from S-B is talking about the whole planet, and not the surface, while the 'average' Earth temperature at the surface is 33 deg C higher. I have already shown why we can't calculate an average that means anything with our current instrumentation. The other problem has to do with the application of the S-B law itself. This law uses emissivity as one of its constants. This, for the Earth means a total albedo. Like global temperature, we can't measure the albedo of the Earth either. It is just assumed. Albedo is different for each square foot of the Earth and will change depending on the color of light you are using. Venus, the Moon, and any other planet has the same issue. We really have no idea what the albedo of any particular body has. This is why effective temperature never matches any real temperatures. It is why using the S-B in this way is incorrect, for it inserts many random elements into the equation to use it this way. The 'effective' temperature is therefore rather a meaningless thing to compare against the actual temperature of a planet or a moon. So what good is S-B? Where this equation is most useful is in showing how energy can be related to temperature as temperature changes. Emissivity is just a constant. You can pick what that constant is, but it doesn't change as you draw the graph of response. The Parrot Killer Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan |
| 24-09-2016 01:01 | |
| jwoodward48★★★★☆ (1537) |
So individual planets/astronomical bodies only have different temperatures because of their different emissivities and albedos? |
| 24-09-2016 02:13 | |
| IBdaMann★★★★★ (14954) |
jwoodward48 wrote: ...and differing distances to the energy source. Stefan-Boltzmann specifies the constant of emissivity and the radiance BOTH. . I don't think i can [define it]. I just kind of get a feel for the phrase. - keepit A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist. The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank :*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist |
| 24-09-2016 02:22 | |
| jwoodward48★★★★☆ (1537) |
Ah, yes, the incoming flux. (Radiance is flux per solid angle, right? Are we assuming that the body considered has a sky half-full? That is, that half of the sky is taken up by the body when you stand on its surface? That would make radiance and flux proportional to each other, right?) |
| 24-09-2016 02:43 | |
| IBdaMann★★★★★ (14954) |
jwoodward48 wrote:Ah, yes, the incoming flux. (Radiance is flux per solid angle, right? Radiance, flux, emission, whatever you want to call it, it's just an amount of energy. jwoodward48 wrote:Are we assuming that the body considered has a sky half-full? That is, that half of the sky is taken up by the body when you stand on its surface? That would make radiance and flux proportional to each other, right?) No, we are not assuming that. You get to determine. You could have multiple energy sources from multiple angles. You add up the energy absorbed (area of incidence multiplied by emissivity) and all that amount of energy must radiate away. . I don't think i can [define it]. I just kind of get a feel for the phrase. - keepit A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist. The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank :*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist |
| 24-09-2016 03:46 | |
| jwoodward48★★★★☆ (1537) |
Which law is that again? |
| 24-09-2016 03:53 | |
| IBdaMann★★★★★ (14954) |
jwoodward48 wrote:Which law is that again? Your favorite and mine. . I don't think i can [define it]. I just kind of get a feel for the phrase. - keepit A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist. The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank :*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist |
| 24-09-2016 04:00 | |
| jwoodward48★★★★☆ (1537) |
Is it SB? |
Join the debate 33 degrees C:
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