10 ppm O3 in stratosphere convert 98% of UV into heat, so what makes people think

Tai Hai Chen wrote:
the first 10 ppm of CO2 in air don't absorb 98% of that band of IR coming off Earth? Why would they think every doubling of CO2 would raise the temperature by the same amount?

Into the Night wrote:

Tai Hai Chen wrote:
the first 10 ppm of CO2 in air don't absorb 98% of that band of IR coming off Earth? Why would they think every doubling of CO2 would raise the temperature by the same amount?

Absorption of UV light does not convert to thermal energy, so it is not heat. UV light absorption causes chemical reactions, such as making O3 out of O2, the tanning (and burning) of human skin, the retinas of various critters that can see into the UV spectrum (insects, some birds, some mammals, and even a few humans).

The O2 to O3 reaction itself is endothermic. It cools the air where it is happening. That is at the tropopause and lower stratosphere, the coldest place in our atmosphere. Below that altitude, UV-B light is too dim (it's been absorbed!) to do much to O2. It will still cause sunburns and have other effects I've described though.

Ozone is also destroyed by UV light, converting it back to O2. This is a higher frequency sub-band of UV light, called UV-C. This destruction of ozone by UV-C absorption prevents any UV-C from reaching the surface. This is an exothermic reaction that tends to occur in the upper stratosphere, which is why there is a temperature inversion in the stratosphere.

UV-C is very dangerous. It will cause blindness and seriously damage human tissue.

UV-A light, the lower frequency sub-band of UV light, causes the tanning reaction in our skin. It is also the prevalent light that insects, birds, etc. see.

Tai Hai Chen wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

Tai Hai Chen wrote:
the first 10 ppm of CO2 in air don't absorb 98% of that band of IR coming off Earth? Why would they think every doubling of CO2 would raise the temperature by the same amount?

Absorption of UV light does not convert to thermal energy, so it is not heat. UV light absorption causes chemical reactions, such as making O3 out of O2, the tanning (and burning) of human skin, the retinas of various critters that can see into the UV spectrum (insects, some birds, some mammals, and even a few humans).

The O2 to O3 reaction itself is endothermic. It cools the air where it is happening. That is at the tropopause and lower stratosphere, the coldest place in our atmosphere. Below that altitude, UV-B light is too dim (it's been absorbed!) to do much to O2. It will still cause sunburns and have other effects I've described though.

Ozone is also destroyed by UV light, converting it back to O2. This is a higher frequency sub-band of UV light, called UV-C. This destruction of ozone by UV-C absorption prevents any UV-C from reaching the surface. This is an exothermic reaction that tends to occur in the upper stratosphere, which is why there is a temperature inversion in the stratosphere.

UV-C is very dangerous. It will cause blindness and seriously damage human tissue.

UV-A light, the lower frequency sub-band of UV light, causes the tanning reaction in our skin. It is also the prevalent light that insects, birds, etc. see.

Conservation of energy. Incoming UV is converted into heat.

Tai Hai Chen wrote:
That's why stratosphere is much hotter than the top part of troposphere,

Tai Hai Chen wrote:
preventing clouds from rising into stratosphere,

Tai Hai Chen wrote:
therefore preventing Earth's water from escaping into space.

Into the Night wrote:

Tai Hai Chen wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

Tai Hai Chen wrote:
the first 10 ppm of CO2 in air don't absorb 98% of that band of IR coming off Earth? Why would they think every doubling of CO2 would raise the temperature by the same amount?

Absorption of UV light does not convert to thermal energy, so it is not heat. UV light absorption causes chemical reactions, such as making O3 out of O2, the tanning (and burning) of human skin, the retinas of various critters that can see into the UV spectrum (insects, some birds, some mammals, and even a few humans).

The O2 to O3 reaction itself is endothermic. It cools the air where it is happening. That is at the tropopause and lower stratosphere, the coldest place in our atmosphere. Below that altitude, UV-B light is too dim (it's been absorbed!) to do much to O2. It will still cause sunburns and have other effects I've described though.

Ozone is also destroyed by UV light, converting it back to O2. This is a higher frequency sub-band of UV light, called UV-C. This destruction of ozone by UV-C absorption prevents any UV-C from reaching the surface. This is an exothermic reaction that tends to occur in the upper stratosphere, which is why there is a temperature inversion in the stratosphere.

UV-C is very dangerous. It will cause blindness and seriously damage human tissue.

UV-A light, the lower frequency sub-band of UV light, causes the tanning reaction in our skin. It is also the prevalent light that insects, birds, etc. see.

Conservation of energy. Incoming UV is converted into heat.

You can't convert anything to heat. Heat is not temperature. It is not thermal energy. If light is converted to thermal energy, the light itself is heat. Heat is the movement of thermal energy, even if an electromagnetic medium is used to do it.

UV light does not convert to thermal energy. It converts to chemical energy, and only when it is absorbed. Chemical energy IS energy, and the conservation of energy law is not violated.

Tai Hai Chen wrote:
That's why stratosphere is much hotter than the top part of troposphere,

Not because of conversion to thermal energy. Because of a chemical reaction. UV light absorption does not convert to thermal energy. You should read up on the Chapman cycle.

Tai Hai Chen wrote:
preventing clouds from rising into stratosphere,

Clouds DO rise into the stratosphere. They even form there.

Tai Hai Chen wrote:
therefore preventing Earth's water from escaping into space.

No, gravity does that.

Wake wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

Tai Hai Chen wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

Tai Hai Chen wrote:
the first 10 ppm of CO2 in air don't absorb 98% of that band of IR coming off Earth? Why would they think every doubling of CO2 would raise the temperature by the same amount?

Absorption of UV light does not convert to thermal energy, so it is not heat. UV light absorption causes chemical reactions, such as making O3 out of O2, the tanning (and burning) of human skin, the retinas of various critters that can see into the UV spectrum (insects, some birds, some mammals, and even a few humans).

The O2 to O3 reaction itself is endothermic. It cools the air where it is happening. That is at the tropopause and lower stratosphere, the coldest place in our atmosphere. Below that altitude, UV-B light is too dim (it's been absorbed!) to do much to O2. It will still cause sunburns and have other effects I've described though.

Ozone is also destroyed by UV light, converting it back to O2. This is a higher frequency sub-band of UV light, called UV-C. This destruction of ozone by UV-C absorption prevents any UV-C from reaching the surface. This is an exothermic reaction that tends to occur in the upper stratosphere, which is why there is a temperature inversion in the stratosphere.

UV-C is very dangerous. It will cause blindness and seriously damage human tissue.

UV-A light, the lower frequency sub-band of UV light, causes the tanning reaction in our skin. It is also the prevalent light that insects, birds, etc. see.

Conservation of energy. Incoming UV is converted into heat.

You can't convert anything to heat. Heat is not temperature. It is not thermal energy. If light is converted to thermal energy, the light itself is heat. Heat is the movement of thermal energy, even if an electromagnetic medium is used to do it.

UV light does not convert to thermal energy. It converts to chemical energy, and only when it is absorbed. Chemical energy IS energy, and the conservation of energy law is not violated.

Tai Hai Chen wrote:
That's why stratosphere is much hotter than the top part of troposphere,

Not because of conversion to thermal energy. Because of a chemical reaction. UV light absorption does not convert to thermal energy. You should read up on the Chapman cycle.

Tai Hai Chen wrote:
preventing clouds from rising into stratosphere,

Clouds DO rise into the stratosphere. They even form there.

Tai Hai Chen wrote:
therefore preventing Earth's water from escaping into space.

No, gravity does that.

The first law of thermodynamics which you think you can wield like a hammer states:
"The total energy of an isolated system is constant; energy can be transformed from one form to another."

Wake wrote:
That means that light, heat and other forms of energy are ALL THE SAME THING.

Wake wrote:
The Stefan-Boltzmann Law states:
"total radiant heat energy emitted from a surface is proportional to the fourth power of its absolute temperature."

Wake wrote:
Any thinking person would realize that temperature is the reflection of the total power in the form of heat energy. Or LIGHT.

Wake wrote:
The conversion of O2 to O3 is endothermic which means:
"Requiring the absorption of heat"

So UV is converted to HEAT

Wake wrote:
What does the Chapman Cycle have to do with anything? That is merely an explanation of how the conversion of O2 to O3 is self limiting since the same thing that converts O2 to O3 converts O3 to O2.

Wake wrote:
What's more, the reverse conversion of O3 to O2 is exothermic and releases heat into the atmosphere.

Wake wrote:
Oh,wait, you declare that you don't believe me.

Wake wrote:
Maybe your alterego can pat you on the back and burp you.

Wake wrote:
There you have it - while tossing terms around like the laws of thermodynamics and the Stefan-Boltzmann Law EVEN WITH THE DIRECT QUOTES he disclaims what they actually say.

Wake wrote:
He doesn't even understand the very thing he is telling someone else to "study" - the Chapman Cycle!

Wake wrote:
This person is so far over the hill that there is simply no need to ever say anything to him ever again -

Wake wrote:
that so few people will answer his postings is pretty much indicative what others think of him so I will follow their example.