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Where Have All The Wingnuts Gone?


Where Have All The Wingnuts Gone?10-03-2019 14:51
IBdaMann
★★★★★
(3520)
Before I went off the grid, one couldn't sneeze on a forum without a dozen Global Warming nutcases coming out of the woodwork claiming all sorts of absurd physics violations. Suddenly Donald Trump pulls the U.S. out of the Paris Climate Scam and not a peep is to be heard from the peanut gallery.

Was it really Trump or did Into the Night finally defeat the Internet?


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
10-03-2019 16:50
HarveyH55
★★★☆☆
(592)
I guess they went off to 'greener' pastures... Actually, they are still out there, meet them over on Hack-A-Day.com occasionally, when they run an article that is green-related. I have to be subtle, it lefty country there. I do manage to point out a few failings, and takes a while before I get accused of denying Climate Change, and the shit hits the fan. Don't often get into the comments over there, really negative stuff, unless it's free (open source), or green. Most don't really get hacking anymore, they want things that can be sold commercially, or us stuff from China, they can order on Ebay. It's really more about using stuff you can get your hands on, and trying to accomplish a goal. Might not be production quality, pretty, or very functional. Just taking an idea, and trying to make it happen, cheap or free.

Think a lot of them have something new to focus on, during the off season. Really hard to sell a bad product, when the weather isn't cooperating. Who is going to believe, or even want to talk Global Warming, when you are having a record breaking winter storm? Strange, how a first time congresswoman, can introduce a socialist House Bill, very brief, very expensive, and the left seem to think it's a great idea. No border wall, more Trump investigations, and no problem spending trillions on socialism... Hopefully, America will wake up during the 2020 election year, and start getting rid of some of those socialists on Capital Hill.
10-03-2019 16:59
Wake
★★★★★
(4012)
IBdaMann wrote:
Before I went off the grid, one couldn't sneeze on a forum without a dozen Global Warming nutcases coming out of the woodwork claiming all sorts of absurd physics violations. Suddenly Donald Trump pulls the U.S. out of the Paris Climate Scam and not a peep is to be heard from the peanut gallery.

Was it really Trump or did Into the Night finally defeat the Internet?

I'm quite sure that Nightmare thinks that he has a tight hold on reality.

While there certainly isn't any man-made climate change and the youtube videos of Tony Heller shows that NASA has completely changed the climate record, this has really been an eye opener for me.

As you say, the claims did defy physics and as a person that has designed and programmed spectometers I couldn't believe that ANYONE could make the claim that CO2 could have an effect other than vanishingly small of transference of heat through the atmosphere the real shock to me is that we aren't even warming - we are cooling.

So the climate actually does match the ice core data from the Russian studies in the Antarctic and Siberia and the American studies in Alaska.

The CO2 studies of the levels of CO2 show that the variability of CO2 in the atmosphere were MUCH more varied and the changes much faster than the claim of the Environmentalists have been.

He who controls the past controls the future. And he who controls the present controls the past.

Do you realize that Greenpeace no longer lists the FOUNDER of the movement in their history because he would not stand for scientific fraud to support their movement? Dr. Michael Mann has lost now four lawsuits because he actually counterfeited the temperature history to make his puny "hockey stick" look like an important discovery.

Now we have actual mail between NASA government member discussin just how they would commit scientific fraud on people in order to use fear to control them!

As for Nightmare, he is an incompetent. He knows almost no science. He often throws around terms that he doesn't understand. He denies the entire science of chromotography and spectometry. He doesn't even believe that you can average temperatures across the globe to generate a Mean Global Temperature because he is completely incompetent even with simple mathematics. He isn't capable of even understanding statistical averaging let alone being able to perform them. He has claimed that light isn't energy and energy isn't heat. He can't even admit that you CAN talk about climate! Somehow he thinks that speaking of climate is some sort of circular reasoning. He believes that considering a change in anything cannot be possible. I have completely stopped responding to his postings and instead copy them to a file that I show to other people who are educated in science. It is good for a laugh.
10-03-2019 18:03
IBdaMann
★★★★★
(3520)
Wake wrote:
I'm quite sure that Nightmare thinks that he has a tight hold on reality.

I, for one, am confident of his firm grip on reality. You should take notes on what he writes. There's a lot of good info in his posts.

Wake wrote:
While there certainly isn't any man-made climate change ...

I notice your use of the qualifier "man-made." Does that mean you believe there is some Climate Change that is real and not just religious myth?


Wake wrote: As you say, the claims did defy physics and as a person that has designed and programmed spectometers I couldn't believe that ANYONE could make the claim that CO2 could have an effect other than vanishingly small of transference of heat through the atmosphere

I think we can agree that atmospheric substances might be able to help usher thermal energy around the atmosphere, but no substance can simply create thermal energy, you know, 1st LoT and all.

Wake wrote:
the real shock to me is that we aren't even warming - we are cooling.

I happen to agree only because I accept blackbody science and I have read credible reports indicating a (slight) decrease in solar activity.

Wake wrote:
So the climate actually does match the ice core data from the Russian studies in the Antarctic and Siberia and the American studies in Alaska.

Have you ever seen this "global climate"? I haven't. How do you know it matches anything? What color is it? How does this "global climate" somehow "match" an ice core?

Global Climate is a religious myth.

Wake wrote:
The CO2 studies of the levels of CO2 show that the variability of CO2 in the atmosphere were MUCH more varied and the changes much faster than the claim of the Environmentalists have been.

Any yahoo can write a "study." None trump science.

Wake wrote:
Now we have actual mail between NASA government member discussin just how they would commit scientific fraud on people in order to use fear to control them!

That's what most religions do and it's the art Marxists have perfected.

Wake wrote:
As for Nightmare, he is an incompetent. He knows almost no science.

I'll tell you what, I'll discuss science with you and I promise I'll keep Into the Night honest ... but I have to say he doesn't make many mistakes from what I've seen.

What physics do you believe he is getting wrong?

Wake wrote:
He denies the entire science of chromotography and spectometry.

I don't recall him ever denying any science. Could you give me an example of something he claimed?

Wake wrote:
He doesn't even believe that you can average temperatures across the globe to generate a Mean Global Temperature because .....

Well, he's correct on this point from the viewpoint of current technological limitations. Of course he accepts the math formula for adding up all the temperatures in a valid dataset and dividing by the number of data points.

Humanity simply does not have the technology to collect a valid dataset that will render an average global temperature of any usable accuracy.

To confirm this to your satisfaction, what do you consider to be a usable accuracy? Within a tenth of a degree Celsius? Within one degree? Within ten? What accuracy would you need in order for your results to be usable?

Wake wrote:
He has claimed that light isn't energy and energy isn't heat.

I'd bet dollars to donuts that you misunderstood what he wrote.

We could ask him.

Into the Night, is light a form of energy?

Of course "energy" is not necessarily thermal energy and "heat" is not really as much a scientific term as it is simply a colloquial term for the physical transfer, or flow, of thermal energy.

Wake wrote:
He can't even admit that you CAN talk about climate!

I'd bet dollars to donuts that what he expressed is that you can't talk about the Global Climate in a scientific context since there is no such thing as Climate science.

To confirm to your satisfaction, try posting the formal, falsifiable definition of the Global Climate such that science can apply to it in the first place.

... or try posting the Global Climate function such that we can take the first derivative and validate the Global Climate change (I'm sure you remember basic high school calculus).


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
10-03-2019 19:28
HarveyH55
★★★☆☆
(592)
From my observations, Into the Night, takes a very literal stance, on most everything, which isn't always good, but nobody is perfect. Words can take on many meanings, depending on the context in which they are used. Sometimes they get misused, since they are the closest some people can get, to communicate a thought. The media, tends to misuse words, often deliberately, sometimes lack of education. I'm not really into debate, and his overly simplified arguments, ignoring context, and possibly poor choice of terminology, is a little excessive, for discussion sake. Difference between a debate, a discussion, and an argument. Discussions are usually more productive, since there is no goal to be a 'winner'. I've never caught him being completely wrong on anything, other than the way he communicates sometimes. It's not the information, just the delivery that bothers some. I don't like the repetition, and arguing the fine details, but that's just me, not my strong points, not that important.
10-03-2019 19:51
IBdaMann
★★★★★
(3520)
HarveyH55 wrote:
From my observations, Into the Night, takes a very literal stance, on most everything,

It's often counterproductive to not be literal, and falsifiable, when discussing science, no?

HarveyH55 wrote:
Words can take on many meanings, depending on the context in which they are used.

We can avoid those problems by defining our terms amongst ourselves and by avoiding Wikipedia as a reference.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
10-03-2019 19:54
Into the Night
★★★★★
(7643)
IBdaMann wrote:
Before I went off the grid, one couldn't sneeze on a forum without a dozen Global Warming nutcases coming out of the woodwork claiming all sorts of absurd physics violations. Suddenly Donald Trump pulls the U.S. out of the Paris Climate Scam and not a peep is to be heard from the peanut gallery.

Was it really Trump or did Into the Night finally defeat the Internet?


I've made a few inroads here and there. Convinced a few that weren't completely fundamentalist.

Defeating the internet?? I'm PART of the internet. Just another schmuck on that weird, wonderful, community that is the internet. I even built part of it, unlike Al Gore.

Some got tired of trying to counter my arguments and left. Others stick around, mostly lurking, and pop up when a new Church of Global Warming believer comes along.

Some have gone to other forums to get away from here, so I harass them there with my arguments.

And, of course, some have been kicked off of here for spamming...litebeer, for instance.


The Parrot Killer
10-03-2019 19:58
Into the Night
★★★★★
(7643)
HarveyH55 wrote:
I guess they went off to 'greener' pastures... Actually, they are still out there, meet them over on Hack-A-Day.com occasionally, when they run an article that is green-related. I have to be subtle, it lefty country there. I do manage to point out a few failings, and takes a while before I get accused of denying Climate Change, and the shit hits the fan. Don't often get into the comments over there, really negative stuff, unless it's free (open source), or green. Most don't really get hacking anymore, they want things that can be sold commercially, or us stuff from China, they can order on Ebay. It's really more about using stuff you can get your hands on, and trying to accomplish a goal. Might not be production quality, pretty, or very functional. Just taking an idea, and trying to make it happen, cheap or free.

Think a lot of them have something new to focus on, during the off season. Really hard to sell a bad product, when the weather isn't cooperating. Who is going to believe, or even want to talk Global Warming, when you are having a record breaking winter storm? Strange, how a first time congresswoman, can introduce a socialist House Bill, very brief, very expensive, and the left seem to think it's a great idea. No border wall, more Trump investigations, and no problem spending trillions on socialism... Hopefully, America will wake up during the 2020 election year, and start getting rid of some of those socialists on Capital Hill.


There's usually a resurgence around Earth Day (Apr 22). I believe the Sunrise Movement folks will have some sort of protest organized on or near Mar 15th. We should see a resurgence of a sort after that. These are very militant people.

You might be surprise how fast the winter is forgotten on these forums.


The Parrot Killer
10-03-2019 20:13
Into the Night
★★★★★
(7643)
Wake wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
Before I went off the grid, one couldn't sneeze on a forum without a dozen Global Warming nutcases coming out of the woodwork claiming all sorts of absurd physics violations. Suddenly Donald Trump pulls the U.S. out of the Paris Climate Scam and not a peep is to be heard from the peanut gallery.

Was it really Trump or did Into the Night finally defeat the Internet?

I'm quite sure that Nightmare thinks that he has a tight hold on reality.

I do, Wake. Let's see if you do. Define 'reality'.
Wake wrote:
While there certainly isn't any man-made climate change and the youtube videos of Tony Heller shows that NASA has completely changed the climate record, this has really been an eye opener for me.

There is no global temperature record. It is not possible to measure the temperature of the Earth.
Wake wrote:
As you say, the claims did defy physics and as a person that has designed and programmed spectometers I couldn't believe that ANYONE could make the claim that CO2 could have an effect other than vanishingly small of transference of heat through the atmosphere the real shock to me is that we aren't even warming - we are cooling.

It is not possible to measure the temperature of the Earth.
Wake wrote:
So the climate actually does match the ice core data from the Russian studies in the Antarctic and Siberia and the American studies in Alaska.
Ice cores do not show the temperature of the Earth. They at best show the temperature at the site of the ice core only.
Wake wrote:
The CO2 studies of the levels of CO2 show that the variability of CO2 in the atmosphere were MUCH more varied and the changes much faster than the claim of the Environmentalists have been.

It is not possible to measure the global atmospheric CO2 concentration. CO2 is not uniformly distributed in the atmosphere.
Wake wrote:
He who controls the past controls the future. And he who controls the present controls the past.
You control neither.
Wake wrote:
Do you realize that Greenpeace no longer lists the FOUNDER of the movement in their history because he would not stand for scientific fraud to support their movement?

At least other people do.
Wake wrote:
Dr. Michael Mann has lost now four lawsuits because he actually counterfeited the temperature history to make his puny "hockey stick" look like an important discovery.
There is no temperature history. It is not possible to measure the temperature of the Earth.
Wake wrote:
As for Nightmare, he is an incompetent.
Insult fallacy. Argument of the stone fallacy.
Wake wrote:
He knows almost no science.
Inversion fallacy.
Wake wrote:
He often throws around terms that he doesn't understand.
Inversion fallacy. I've also noted that you often claim to be things you are not and never were, Wake.
Wake wrote:
He denies the entire science of chromotography and spectometry.
Strawman fallacy. This has nothing to do with global temperatures or the Church of Global Warming.
Wake wrote:
He doesn't even believe that you can average temperatures across the globe to generate a Mean Global Temperature because he is completely incompetent even with simple mathematics.

A simple average is not statistical math, Wake. Averaging 100 thermometers in Seattle tells you NOTHING about Yakima.
Wake wrote:
He isn't capable of even understanding statistical averaging let alone being able to perform them.
Inversion fallacy. This is YOUR problem, Wake.
Wake wrote:
He has claimed that light isn't energy
Never did.
Wake wrote:
and energy isn't heat.
Heat is not energy, Wake.
Wake wrote:
He can't even admit that you CAN talk about climate!
You can. You can't talk about 'climate change' without defining it first. You can't talk about 'global warming' without defining it first.
Wake wrote:
Somehow he thinks that speaking of climate is some sort of circular reasoning.
Never did.
Wake wrote:
He believes that considering a change in anything cannot be possible.
Void argument fallacy.
Wake wrote:
I have completely stopped responding to his postings
Bulverism fallacy.
Wake wrote:
and instead copy them to a file that I show to other people who are educated in science.
I doubt you know anybody in science, Wake.


The Parrot Killer
11-03-2019 00:40
HarveyH55
★★★☆☆
(592)
IBdaMann wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
From my observations, Into the Night, takes a very literal stance, on most everything,

It's often counterproductive to not be literal, and falsifiable, when discussing science, no?

HarveyH55 wrote:
Words can take on many meanings, depending on the context in which they are used.

We can avoid those problems by defining our terms amongst ourselves and by avoiding Wikipedia as a reference.


Discussing science? Well, sometimes, but Climatology isn't real science, more science fiction. They use science as sort of a point of departure, then have fun with it. Mostly based on a video game they like to play, and share screenshots of all the doom and destruction. When discussing fiction, being literal is counterproductive, since you'd need to use a little imagination to follow.
11-03-2019 13:00
IBdaMann
★★★★★
(3520)
It feels a bit strange not being vastly outnumbered by scientifically illiterate, science denying megaphones.
11-03-2019 15:38
James___
★★★★☆
(1160)
I've been pretty much attacked for wanting to understand why we have climatic variations. Strange sn't it? That many people say our climate doesn't have natural variations because CO2 is at most having a minimal effect on global warming as it's only about 0.04% of our atmospheric gases. Just as bad as those that say CO2 is driving global warming.
11-03-2019 16:40
IBdaMann
★★★★★
(3520)
James___ wrote:
I've been pretty much attacked for wanting to understand why we have climatic variations. Strange sn't it?

It's not strange at all if you never bother to formally define "climate" and "variability."

James___ wrote:
That many people say our climate doesn't have natural variations because CO2 is at most having a minimal effect on global warming as it's only about 0.04% of our atmospheric gases. Just as bad as those that say CO2 is driving global warming.

So how do things change if Global Warming is just a WACKY religion based on unscientific gibber-babble that appeals to the scientifically illiterate who are desperate to appear smart?


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
11-03-2019 19:17
Into the Night
★★★★★
(7643)
IBdaMann wrote:
James___ wrote:
I've been pretty much attacked for wanting to understand why we have climatic variations. Strange sn't it?

It's not strange at all if you never bother to formally define "climate" and "variability."

James___ wrote:
That many people say our climate doesn't have natural variations because CO2 is at most having a minimal effect on global warming as it's only about 0.04% of our atmospheric gases. Just as bad as those that say CO2 is driving global warming.

So how do things change if Global Warming is just a WACKY religion based on unscientific gibber-babble that appeals to the scientifically illiterate who are desperate to appear smart?


I guess he didn't hear you the first time you asked.


The Parrot Killer
11-03-2019 19:51
IBdaMann
★★★★★
(3520)
Into the Night wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
James___ wrote:
I've been pretty much attacked for wanting to understand why we have climatic variations. Strange sn't it?

It's not strange at all if you never bother to formally define "climate" and "variability."

James___ wrote:
That many people say our climate doesn't have natural variations because CO2 is at most having a minimal effect on global warming as it's only about 0.04% of our atmospheric gases. Just as bad as those that say CO2 is driving global warming.

So how do things change if Global Warming is just a WACKY religion based on unscientific gibber-babble that appeals to the scientifically illiterate who are desperate to appear smart?


I guess he didn't hear you the first time you asked.


I've been know to ask a few times, sometimes because I forgot that I had asked previously.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
12-03-2019 22:33
gfm7175
★★☆☆☆
(153)
IBdaMann wrote:
Before I went off the grid, one couldn't sneeze on a forum without a dozen Global Warming nutcases coming out of the woodwork claiming all sorts of absurd physics violations. Suddenly Donald Trump pulls the U.S. out of the Paris Climate Scam and not a peep is to be heard from the peanut gallery.

Was it really Trump or did Into the Night finally defeat the Internet?


Welcome back, and nice to meet you. ITN has been a breath of fresh air, and taught me quite a bit of things which I didn't previously know, due to my educators failing me.

I'd like to know where they went too... You can still find a lot of them on the debatepolitics.com forums, but here they seem to have pretty much vanished, except for Angry Wake and maybe a couple others...
12-03-2019 23:43
IBdaMann
★★★★★
(3520)
gfm7175 wrote:
Welcome back, and nice to meet you.

Likewise, nice to meet you as well.

gfm7175 wrote:
ITN has been a breath of fresh air, and taught me quite a bit of things which I didn't previously know, due to my educators failing me.

Into the Night is good at that. He is patient and he gives everyone the benefit of the doubt. One has to imply he has simian ancestry several times to get a modicum of a rise out of him.

I, on the other hand, get one whiff of dishonesty and my patience is last century. I don't have Into the Night's calm demeanor in dealing with the Global Warming Congregation.

Tip: It's fine to have a religion, however you should probably avoid any faith that pretends to be settled science.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
13-03-2019 00:16
gfm7175
★★☆☆☆
(153)
IBdaMann wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:
Welcome back, and nice to meet you.

Likewise, nice to meet you as well.

gfm7175 wrote:
ITN has been a breath of fresh air, and taught me quite a bit of things which I didn't previously know, due to my educators failing me.

Into the Night is good at that. He is patient and he gives everyone the benefit of the doubt. One has to imply he has simian ancestry several times to get a modicum of a rise out of him.

I, on the other hand, get one whiff of dishonesty and my patience is last century. I don't have Into the Night's calm demeanor in dealing with the Global Warming Congregation.

Tip: It's fine to have a religion, however you should probably avoid any faith that pretends to be settled science.

Very true... many people want to make the two into one of the same, which leads to numerous paradoxes.

I happen to share ITNs patience for the most part. It's been fun slowly learning more about science, logic, mathematics, etc...
13-03-2019 03:27
Into the Night
★★★★★
(7643)
IBdaMann wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:
Welcome back, and nice to meet you.

Likewise, nice to meet you as well.

gfm7175 wrote:
ITN has been a breath of fresh air, and taught me quite a bit of things which I didn't previously know, due to my educators failing me.

Into the Night is good at that. He is patient and he gives everyone the benefit of the doubt. One has to imply he has simian ancestry several times to get a modicum of a rise out of him.

I, on the other hand, get one whiff of dishonesty and my patience is last century. I don't have Into the Night's calm demeanor in dealing with the Global Warming Congregation.

Tip: It's fine to have a religion, however you should probably avoid any faith that pretends to be settled science.

*humble bow*


The Parrot Killer




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