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Potential Effects of Broadcast Induced REP on Climate Change



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03-11-2018 01:05
Lewis Carlson
★☆☆☆☆
(122)
If you search for Electromagnetic Field Theory, the first thing that comes up is Bo Thide. He wrote the book and the comments you are discounting above. He's seriously one of the smartest dudes in ionospheric physics, but you know better right?

You think Michel Parrot's research is BS and hooey.

Ozone layer isn't thinning.. when it is.

Radio waves don't cause Electron Precipitation instead they bounce off the ozone layer??? wtf?

Electron Precipitation doesn't cause stratospheric ozone depletion through NOx formation.. but it does.

Do you have anything at all to back these wild claims up? Geez I'm sorry but YOU are sounding like the crazy nut there buddy. I'm sure that NASA video isn't real either and you a flat earther too?
Edited on 03-11-2018 01:59
03-11-2018 01:30
Lewis Carlson
★☆☆☆☆
(122)
I'm sure you think all of this research is BS too and we can't alter our ionosphere? That radio waves only reflect off of it like a mirror?

Ionosphere disturbances generated by different natural processes and by human activity in Earth plasma environment:

"We can observe parallel to direct radiation also in the emissions of ionos-pheric plasma triggered by transmitters of electromagnetic waves located around the world. Human activity can be seen on the recorded spectra as separated peaks, growing of the whole background of plasma emission or enhanced broadband emissions in the whole observed frequency range (fig. 17.4)."

"The permanently pumped electromagnetic waves to the ionosphere by the system of broadcasting stations can disturb the nearest space environment. Thus this activity can create in the topside ionosphere local Langmuir turbulence or ion-acoustic turbulence. However theoretical assumptions show that the generation of ion-acoustic turbulence is far more effective. The scattering of super-thermal electrons on ion-acoustic or Langmuir turbulence is proposed as a mechanism of generation of broad-band HF emissions. The HF diagnostics, performed on the low orbiting satellite, detected an enhancement of radiation particularly over the Euro-Asia region. HF emission in the topside ionosphere is more intense over the area correlated with outer radiation belts.

Fig. 17.4. The example of typical single HF spectrum detected on board the Coronas-I satellite, the line marks the local electron gyrofrequency at the satellite altitude and the arrow the cut-off of local plasma emission UHR (Upper Hybrid Resonance). The well pronounced emission for frequencies larger than UHR are related to human activity, mainly broadcasting station activity.

https://www.earth-prints.org/bitstream/2122/823/1/18Rothkaehl.pdf
Edited on 03-11-2018 01:35
03-11-2018 02:11
Lewis Carlson
★☆☆☆☆
(122)
More on how radio waves cause Electron Precipitation:

Phenomena in the ionosphere-magnetosphere system induced by injection of powerful HF radio waves into nightside auroral ionosphere

"However, some effects were observed only when the HF pump wave was reflected from the F2 layer. Among them are the generation of intense field-aligned ion outflows, and a strong increase in the electron temperature Te with altitude. A possible scenario for the substorm triggering due to HF pumping into an auroral ionosphere is discussed. The authors present their interpretation of the data as follows. It is suggested that two populations of charged particles are at play. One of them is the runaway population of electrons and ions from the ionosphere caused by the effects of the powerful HF radio wave. The other is the population of electrons that precipitate from the magnetosphere. It is shown that the hydrodynamical equilibrium was disrupted due to the effects of the HF pumping"

https://www.ann-geophys.net/23/87/2005/angeo-23-87-2005.pdf

The electron precipitation in the polar regions alters the hydrodynamic equilibrium which goes hand in hand with electronegativity, NOx and the Chapman cycle of ozone formation and destruction.
Edited on 03-11-2018 02:16
03-11-2018 02:22
Lewis Carlson
★☆☆☆☆
(122)
How Electron Precipitation can affect ozone through NOx formation in the stratosphere:

Effect of relativistic electron precipitation on neutral atmospheric composition
E. Turunen, Th. Ulich, C.-F. Enell, A. Kero Sodankyla Geophysical Observatory, Sodankyla, Finland

"Recent theoretical results from the Sodankyla Ion-Chemistry Model show how nitric oxide is produced and sustained in the high-latitude ionosphere in response to energetic auroral electron precipitation. Dramatic local increases in nitric oxide above background levels seem to persist into the dayside after auroral activity, and the persistence of nitric oxide leads to elevated electron densities long after the activity has subsided."

http://cal-crete.physics.uoc.gr/Abstracts/D6_Esa_Turunen_Abstract.pdf

I'm sure 'Into The Night' thinks all of this research is just a big ball of BS!? Fake news right buddy?
Edited on 03-11-2018 02:24
03-11-2018 02:54
Lewis Carlson
★☆☆☆☆
(122)
Here's a great one linking REP to NOx~~>O3 depletion and a change in tropospheric temperature:

PET: A Proton/Electron Telescope for Studies of Magnetospheric, Solar, and Galactic Particles

"Solar energetic particle events and relativistic electron precipitation events can lead to significant atmospheric production of odd nitrogen (NO, NO2, NO3, HNO4, N2O5, and ClONO2) and odd hydrogen (H, OH, HO2, H2O2). This occurs through ion chemistry initiated by the atmospheric ion pair production associated with these events. Both of these chemical families are important to the global O3 balance [10], and hence to the thermal structure of the middle atmosphere. Thorne [5,6] suggested that precipitating relativistic electrons, through the production of odd hydrogen and odd nitrogen, could lead to local O3 depletions in the 40-80 km region of the middle atmosphere. Callis et al. [8,9] have carried out simulations which suggest that the production of odd nitrogen species in this altitude region and in the fall, winter and early spring, may be carried by the normally descending advective motions to the lower stratosphere. During these seasons, the photodissociation rates of NO are small, and due to the long lifetime of NOy in the mid-to-lower stratosphere, accumulation may occur with attendant O3 destruction. Events occurring in these seasons and in the polar night would certainly lead to accumulations of NOy and HOx.

If relativistic electrons, when precipitated into the middle atmosphere, significantly modify O3 and NOy concentrations [6,7] they could leverage and modify a much larger energy supply, viz., solar UV radiation. Thorne [5] suggested that modulation of stratospheric O3 might affect the thermal structure and radiative processes of the atmosphere."

http://www.srl.caltech.edu/sampex/pet.html
Edited on 03-11-2018 02:55
03-11-2018 03:00
Lewis Carlson
★☆☆☆☆
(122)
More research on Electron Precipitation causing ozone depletion:

The importance of energetic particle precipitation on the chemical composition of the middle atmosphere

"The long residence time of NO in this region of the atmosphere, where catalytic interaction with O3 is also most effective, mandates that this mechanism be included in future modelling of the global distribution of O3. Throughout the mesosphere the precipitation of energetic electrons from the outer radiation belt (60°≲Λ≲70°) can sporadically act as a major local source of odd hydrogen and odd nitrogen leading to observable O3 depletion."

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2FBF01586448

I have plenty more.. because it's real and scientists have been measuring this for decades.
03-11-2018 08:43
Into the Night
★★★★★
(6074)
Tim the plumber wrote:
Lewis Carlson wrote:
Our climate is changing as many of us are aware and many have dedicated their lives and time to doing our best to set right the challenges we face so that our children and generations ahead may have a healthy ecosystem to grow in and thrive upon. About ten years ago I dove deep into the climate change issue and learned about many facets of this astronomical challenge we face, most importantly the problem that rising CO2 levels pose from man made sources.

In my process of learning about various climate forcing mechanisms I became aware of another mechanism and have wondered for years of its potential significance in climate change. Through discourse with friends and others it seems little are aware of this other factor that could potentially play a role in the dynamics we're seeing and I'm hoping to connect with you in hopes that you or one of your colleagues may be able to shed light on these curiosities should there be more to this other climate forcing mechanism, or good reasons to dismiss it. If we truly wish to solve this incredibly difficult task it seems to me that we should leave no stone unturned. So here I am doing my part and due diligence as best I know how. I hope it is well received with an open mind and an open heart.

In 2007 I learned of a phenomenon known as Relativistic Electron Precipitation - REP and that some of the leading researchers of ionospheric physics, such as Michal Parrot of CNRS France head of DEMETER micro-satellite mission and VERSIM (VLF/ELF Remote Sensing of Ionospheres and Magnetospheres 96' - 05') who said in a research paper that using scientific transmitters it was becoming clear that it stimulates REP and could have a potential impact on "the global warming of the earth".

"At VLF frequencies between 10 and 20 kHz, the ground-based transmitters are used for radio-navigation and communications. Their ionospheric perturbations include: the triggering of new waves, ionospheric heating, wave-electron interactions, and particle precipitation. At HF frequencies, the broadcasting stations utilise powerful transmitters which can heat the ionosphere and change the temperature and the density. All these wave dissipations in the ionosphere could participate to the global warming of the Earth because the change in global temperature increases the number of natural lightning discharges in the atmosphere. Then the supplementary lightning discharges produce more magnetospheric whistlers which could produce heating and ionization in the lower ionosphere.

Furthermore, it is a feedback mechanism because two different processes could be involved. First, lightning is a source of NOx, and NOx affects the concentration of ozone in the atmosphere which contributes to the greenhouse effect. Second, precipitation of energetic electrons by man?made waves may trigger other lightning discharges. It explains the importance of the study of such man-made waves [7]. Ionospheric perturbations by natural geophysical activities have been made evident by two methods: the study of the electromagnetic waves, and the measurement of the electron density." http://wwwperso.lpc2e.cnrs.fr/www_experim/experim_espace_demeter_details_eng.php

Since learning of REP and its potential role in climate change we've seen more and more research coming out that could potentially support the possibility that REP, along with increasing CO2, play a significant role in the climate change we are seeing. For example REP is potentially linked to the most notable region of climate warming in the entire Southern Hemisphere. "In this report we attract attention to a fact that the global maximum of the outer belt energetic electron precipitation is localized in a narrow longitudinal belt centered in the Weddell Sea i.e. in the area of climate warming in the Southern hemisphere. It was shown by several explorers that energetic resources of this electron precipitation are sufficient to change temperature regime of the stratosphere and troposphere."

Peculiarities of Long-Term Trends of Surface Temperature in Antarctica and Their Possible Connections with Outer Belt Electron Precipitation https://www.cosis.net/abstracts/EMS2006/00027/EMS2006-A-00027.pdf?PHPSESSID=3

As you may well know the stratospheric ozone level is at an altitude above the carbon from man made sources and acts as a valve for UV rays coming into our atmosphere heating these greenhouse gasses. While most of the scientific community has been focused on rising CO2 levels, we've heard very little about how our potential use of broadcast energy on a global scale could be stimulating this REP ~ ozone depletion mechanism.

Though we hear more about the potential healing of the ozone holes in polar regions, we've heard little about how ozone levels over most populated areas are thinning increasing UV rays: "The potential for harm in lower latitudes may actually be worse than at the poles..The decreases in ozone are less than we saw at the poles before the Montreal Protocol was enacted, but UV radiation is more intense in these regions and more people live there." https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/science/2018/02/07/ozone-layer-continues-thin-over-earths-populated-areas/315405002/

A 2016 scientific report first coined the term Anthropogenic Space Weather and discussed the effect our output of electromagnetic energy specifically in the VLF range has been directly observed by NASA satellites to radically alter our magnetosphere creating an artificial bubble of energy around the planet capable of blocking high energy particles from space. This article frames the energetic bubble as being beneficial to blocking radiation from space, but could it also be playing a role in stimulating ozone depletion through Relativistic Electron Precipitation? https://www.sciencealert.com/nasa-space-probes-detect-a-human-made-barrier-shrouding-earth

First-time evidence shows electrons precipitating or 'raining' from Earth's magnetosphere are destroying ozone in the upper atmosphere: NASA/Goddard Space Flight Center-- https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2000/12/001215082423.htm

In 2002 Bo Thide from the Swedish Institute of Space Physics wrote a paper titled, "Atmosphere-Ionosphere-Mission, an Elaborate Science Case" in which he put out a call for ideas regarding this REP climate forcing mechanism saying that the public should be concerned. Bo Thide is one of the world's leading ionospheric physicists. He wrote the book on Electromagnetic Field Theory and single handedly revolutionized our understanding of ionospheric research with multi channel ionospheric probing; awarding him the Edlund Prize of the Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences in 1991. If he's saying "the public should be concerned".. why aren't we even aware of this?: https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/view/25321698/atmosphere-ionosphere-mission-swedish-institute-of-space-

So after looking at all this I'm left wondering how significant our use of broadcast energy could be in climate change given these new findings? Are NASA and other scientists looking into this possibility and do they deem it potentially significant in climate change? If not.. Why not? Perhaps there is indeed a good reason I'm not aware of.

According the the IPCC, REP was discounted as a potential player in climate change because it's variability was too closely linked to solar proton events which are unpredictable and REP is seen as "natural", but if we've been outputting EM energy into the ionosphere longer than we've been able to measure it, then how can we know what is or isn't "natural"? "Nevertheless, VLF transmissions of anthropogenic origin may constitute a key space weather influence on pathways that fundamentally alter the storm-time radiation belt. Under these assumptions, it is interesting for the reader to consider what the terrestrial radiation belt environment might have been in the pre-transmitter, and pre-observation, era."
Anthropogenic Space Weather 2016 - https://www.researchgate.net/publication/309854824_Anthropogenic_Space_Weather

It has taken our scientific community a long time to realize the dire effects man made CO2 plays as a climate forcing mechanism. I don't doubt its significance and am left wondering if it will take another 50 years before we see there's potentially another part in the wholistic equation of our complex climate system.

If we're truly dedicating our time, careers and lives to solving this monumental problem for generations ahead.. are we looking at the potential significance of how our global broadcast may be stimulating an ozone depletion mechanism allowing more UV rays to heat increasing levels of greenhouse gasses most of all CO2 from man made sources? How do we determine what is or isn't worth our time when looking for answers?

I really appreciate all the energy and effort you and others are dedicating to solving the issues of climate change and appreciate your time and consideration around this letter.


Thank you sincerely, Professor Lewis Carlson PhD ~ RelativisticElectronPrecipitation@protonmail.com


Google shows a professor of this name as a historian.

Are you him?

If so why are you talking about atmospheric physics?

Are you aware of how much radio energy there is wafting around in nature? How tiny our impact is upon that vast deluge?


He obviously is not.



The Parrot Killer
03-11-2018 08:44
Into the Night
★★★★★
(6074)
James___ wrote:
Lewis Carlson wrote:
Our climate is changing as many of us are aware and many have dedicated their lives and time to doing our best to set right the challenges we face so that our children and generations ahead may have a healthy ecosystem to grow in and thrive upon. About ten years ago I dove deep into the climate change issue and learned about many facets of this astronomical challenge we face, most importantly the problem that rising CO2 levels pose from man


Thank you sincerely, Professor Lewis Carlson PhD ~ RelativisticElectronPrecipitation@protonmail.com



...Prof. Carlson,
..With the saturation of radiowaves in our atmosphere I usually wonder if that's why so many children are born autistic. I wouldn't be surprised if radiowaves could damage the developing brain in a fetus.


They don't. Autism has been around since long before our first radio station. It has no greater occurrence among children living close to high power radio stations, power lines, or power stations.


The Parrot Killer
Edited on 03-11-2018 09:06
03-11-2018 08:46
Into the Night
★★★★★
(6074)
Lewis Carlson wrote:
Do you think 1.45MHz signals bounce off of the ozone layer as you say? And you you have any scientific research or links to back any of what you are saying up. I've provided plenty.


Yes. See the work of Marconi and literally thousands of amateur radio operators, as well as literally thousands of commercial broadcast radio operators.


The Parrot Killer
03-11-2018 08:52
Into the Night
★★★★★
(6074)
Lewis Carlson wrote:
If you search for Electromagnetic Field Theory, the first thing that comes up is Bo Thide. He wrote the book and the comments you are discounting above. He's seriously one of the smartest dudes in ionospheric physics, but you know better right?

You think Michel Parrot's research is BS and hooey.

Yup.
Lewis Carlson wrote:
Ozone layer isn't thinning.. when it is.

It is not thinning. As long as you have sunlight and oxygen, you will have ozone.
Lewis Carlson wrote:
Radio waves don't cause Electron Precipitation instead they bounce off the ozone layer??? wtf?

That's right.
Lewis Carlson wrote:
Electron Precipitation doesn't cause stratospheric ozone depletion through NOx formation.. but it does.

No, it doesn't.
Lewis Carlson wrote:
Do you have anything at all to back these wild claims up?

Existing theories of science.
Lewis Carlson wrote:
Geez I'm sorry but YOU are sounding like the crazy nut there buddy. I'm sure that NASA video isn't real either

Sure it's real. Nice piece of animation too. Has nothing to do with crackpot research.
Lewis Carlson wrote:
and you a flat earther too?

No.

Why is it that when someone disagrees with anyone they are instantly a flat earther? That old line is getting pretty long in the tooth.


The Parrot Killer
03-11-2018 09:01
Into the Night
★★★★★
(6074)
Lewis Carlson wrote:
I'm sure you think all of this research is BS too and we can't alter our ionosphere?

Generally, no.
Lewis Carlson wrote:
That radio waves only reflect off of it like a mirror?

No. Some frequencies reflect off of it, others are scattered by it, others pass right through it like wasn't even there. We tend to use the latter for satellite communications. We tend to use the middle case for short range communications (like cell phones, most radios on aircraft), we tend to use the former case for long range communications without the use of satellites, the meteors, or the Moon.
Lewis Carlson wrote:
Ionosphere disturbances generated by different natural processes and by human activity in Earth plasma environment:
"We can observe parallel to direct radiation also in the emissions of ionos-pheric plasma triggered by transmitters of electromagnetic waves located around the world. Human activity can be seen on the recorded spectra as separated peaks, growing of the whole background of plasma emission or enhanced broadband emissions in the whole observed frequency range (fig. 17.4)."

There is no grain to the ionosphere. Different frequencies behave differently. There is no such thing as an 'enhanced broadband emission'.
Lewis Carlson wrote:
...deleted remaining buzzwords and Holy Quotes...

Go get yourself an amateur radio license. It's fun, and you can learn a lot of real things about radio instead of listening to twits like this.


The Parrot Killer
03-11-2018 09:02
Into the Night
★★★★★
(6074)
Lewis Carlson wrote:
More on how radio waves cause Electron Precipitation:

Phenomena in the ionosphere-magnetosphere system induced by injection of powerful HF radio waves into nightside auroral ionosphere

"However, some effects were observed only when the HF pump wave was reflected from the F2 layer. Among them are the generation of intense field-aligned ion outflows, and a strong increase in the electron temperature Te with altitude. A possible scenario for the substorm triggering due to HF pumping into an auroral ionosphere is discussed. The authors present their interpretation of the data as follows. It is suggested that two populations of charged particles are at play. One of them is the runaway population of electrons and ions from the ionosphere caused by the effects of the powerful HF radio wave. The other is the population of electrons that precipitate from the magnetosphere. It is shown that the hydrodynamical equilibrium was disrupted due to the effects of the HF pumping"

https://www.ann-geophys.net/23/87/2005/angeo-23-87-2005.pdf

The electron precipitation in the polar regions alters the hydrodynamic equilibrium which goes hand in hand with electronegativity, NOx and the Chapman cycle of ozone formation and destruction.


You spew buzzwords as much as another poster that used to be on here (and is no longer).


The Parrot Killer
03-11-2018 09:04
Into the Night
★★★★★
(6074)
Lewis Carlson wrote:
How Electron Precipitation can affect ozone through NOx formation in the stratosphere:

Effect of relativistic electron precipitation on neutral atmospheric composition
E. Turunen, Th. Ulich, C.-F. Enell, A. Kero Sodankyla Geophysical Observatory, Sodankyla, Finland

"Recent theoretical results from the Sodankyla Ion-Chemistry Model show how nitric oxide is produced and sustained in the high-latitude ionosphere in response to energetic auroral electron precipitation. Dramatic local increases in nitric oxide above background levels seem to persist into the dayside after auroral activity, and the persistence of nitric oxide leads to elevated electron densities long after the activity has subsided."

http://cal-crete.physics.uoc.gr/Abstracts/D6_Esa_Turunen_Abstract.pdf

I'm sure 'Into The Night' thinks all of this research is just a big ball of BS!? Fake news right buddy?


Yup. Nitric oxide does not change or elevate electrons or increase their density. High altitude nitric oxide breaks down very quickly due to UV exposure into nitrogen and oxygen.


The Parrot Killer
03-11-2018 09:05
Into the Night
★★★★★
(6074)
Lewis Carlson wrote:
Here's a great one linking REP to NOx~~>O3 depletion and a change in tropospheric temperature:

PET: A Proton/Electron Telescope for Studies of Magnetospheric, Solar, and Galactic Particles

"Solar energetic particle events and relativistic electron precipitation events can lead to significant atmospheric production of odd nitrogen (NO, NO2, NO3, HNO4, N2O5, and ClONO2) and odd hydrogen (H, OH, HO2, H2O2). This occurs through ion chemistry initiated by the atmospheric ion pair production associated with these events. Both of these chemical families are important to the global O3 balance [10], and hence to the thermal structure of the middle atmosphere. Thorne [5,6] suggested that precipitating relativistic electrons, through the production of odd hydrogen and odd nitrogen, could lead to local O3 depletions in the 40-80 km region of the middle atmosphere. Callis et al. [8,9] have carried out simulations which suggest that the production of odd nitrogen species in this altitude region and in the fall, winter and early spring, may be carried by the normally descending advective motions to the lower stratosphere. During these seasons, the photodissociation rates of NO are small, and due to the long lifetime of NOy in the mid-to-lower stratosphere, accumulation may occur with attendant O3 destruction. Events occurring in these seasons and in the polar night would certainly lead to accumulations of NOy and HOx.

If relativistic electrons, when precipitated into the middle atmosphere, significantly modify O3 and NOy concentrations [6,7] they could leverage and modify a much larger energy supply, viz., solar UV radiation. Thorne [5] suggested that modulation of stratospheric O3 might affect the thermal structure and radiative processes of the atmosphere."

http://www.srl.caltech.edu/sampex/pet.html


You can quote one Holy Link after another. It's still BS.


The Parrot Killer
03-11-2018 19:28
Lewis Carlson
★☆☆☆☆
(122)
"You can quote one Holy Link after another. It's still BS."

This seems to be your go to method for convo domination 'Into The Night', discount anything and everything without anything real. You're like a puff of hot air blowing up your own ass still living in the age of Marconi when science has moved on. Well you're fueling this thread as much as anybody and keeping it at the top of the thread here, so let's keep at it shall we and watch the audience grow and the audience can watch you discount more and more until you and Marconi are the only ones left. I'm not going to stick around as long as you will as I have better things to do with my life then bickering with you here. But I'm not done and will provide plenty more holy links and data. So let's keep it at the top of the thread shall we?
03-11-2018 19:59
Lewis Carlson
★☆☆☆☆
(122)
1.45MHz doesn't bounce off of the ozone layer, though some of it is attenuated by the atmosphere it can bounce off and couple with the E layer of the ionosphere. Signals that are higher in frequency go through the E layer and bounce off the F layer.

Where our planets magnetic field lines run north to south it forms electron density ducts in the ionosphere and signals that couple with the E layer can cause ion acoustic turbulence and ion cyclotron waves in the ionospheric plasma.

HAARP has stimulated the ionosphere in this frequency range showing enhanced plasma turbulence.

Enhanced nonlinear interaction of powerful electromagnetic waves with ionospheric plasma near the second electron gyroharmonic

Plasma experiments in which a powerful electromagnetic pump wave is transmitted into the ionosphere from the ground give access to a rich range of phenomena, including gyroharmonic effects when the pump frequency is near an harmonic of the ionospheric electron gyrofrequency

https://aip.scitation.org/doi/10.1063/1.4807038

------------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------
This lil section at the bottom of my posts is for Into The Night's henceforth: If there's something here, it's for him, if there's nothing here.. I'm ignoring him.

That said.. back to it ☺ and yes I have a HAM license, volunteered with local LE and FEMA in auxiliary communications.
03-11-2018 20:11
Into the Night
★★★★★
(6074)
Lewis Carlson wrote:
"You can quote one Holy Link after another. It's still BS."

This seems to be your go to method for convo domination 'Into The Night', discount anything and everything without anything real.

The theories of science you are denying are real.
Lewis Carlson wrote:
You're like a puff of hot air blowing up your own ass still living in the age of Marconi when science has moved on.

Marconi's theories on radio propagation have not been falsified. You can't just discard them.
Lewis Carlson wrote:
Well you're fueling this thread as much as anybody and keeping it at the top of the thread here, so let's keep at it shall we and watch the audience grow and the audience can watch you discount more and more until you and Marconi are the only ones left.

Since you are discarding Marconi, Maxwell, Faraday, and others, you are denying the theories of science they created. Those theories are still there. They have not yet been falsified. You are making a presentism fallacy.
Lewis Carlson wrote:
I'm not going to stick around as long as you will as I have better things to do with my life then bickering with you here.

We shall see.
Lewis Carlson wrote:
But I'm not done and will provide plenty more holy links and data. So let's keep it at the top of the thread shall we?

Your Holy Links to things like Wikipedia, CNN, USA Today, and a few crackpot 'science' theories, do not make any of them True.

As far as which thread is active, that only takes one poster, not two.


The Parrot Killer
03-11-2018 20:37
Lewis Carlson
★☆☆☆☆
(122)
The ozone layer is between 10 - 50km high, the E layer of the ionosphere is 85km. If 1.45MHz bounced off the ozone layer, it would never even make it to the ionosphere. I don't know which planet you live on, but it isn't this one 'Into The Night'. Go ahead tell me more of your radio wave reflecting ozone layer. Ozone content is actually measured more often from atmospheric NOx content because the two are so closely linked.

https://www.reference.com/science/layer-atmosphere-reflects-radio-waves-e2a247bee2e7323b
Edited on 03-11-2018 21:33
03-11-2018 21:32
Lewis Carlson
★☆☆☆☆
(122)
Although the stratospheric ozone layer can experience greater depletion in the wake of solar and cosmic ray events, REP is constant and even exhibits consistent patterns. In fact they found that most of the precipitated electrons appear to be from the ionosphere in the aroural region caused by EMIC - electromagnetic ion cyclotron waves which as previously shown is effectively stimulated by broadcast transmission s in and around the ionospheric electron gyrofrequency:

This study shows that EMIC waves and intense relativistic electron precipitation can be strongly linked, as expected by previously reported theoretical modeling.

"Flux decrease events usually begin in the pre-midnight sector (1500-2400 MLT), and typically show decreases of around 3 three orders of magnitude in >2 MeV electron flux within a few hours of onset, followed by an extended period of low flux suggesting permanent electron loss... Precipitation into the atmosphere of electrons driven into the bounce loss cone was suggested as the primary loss mechanism, through interaction with electron cyclotron harmonic waves [Horne and Thorne, 2000], electromagnetic ion cyclotron waves [Summers and Thorne, 2003], whistler waves [Horne and Thorne, 2003], separately or in combination."


http://www.physics.otago.ac.nz/space/AARDDVARK_REP_background.htm
03-11-2018 21:52
Lewis Carlson
★☆☆☆☆
(122)
So far it has been clearly demonstrated that broadcast can stimulate Relativistic Electron Precipitation REP and also shown that REP can interact with stratospheric nitrogen to form NOx compounds that play a role in the Chapman cycle and the depletion of the ozone layer which is still thinning in mid latitudes unlike the polar regions which are showing signs of recovery.

Though the Chapman cycle is the dominant process of ozone formation and depletion, we are still seeing additional thinning of the ozone layer.. scientists do not know why? However some of the worlds leading ionospheric physicists have pointed out that broadcast on a global scale could be contributing to this ozone depletion and have furthermore suggested that it could play a more significant role in climate change than previously thought.
Edited on 03-11-2018 22:36
03-11-2018 23:10
Lewis Carlson
★☆☆☆☆
(122)
Research article | 06 Feb 2018

Evidence for a continuous decline in lower stratospheric ozone offsetting ozone layer recovery

"Here we report evidence from multiple satellite measurements that ozone in the lower stratosphere between 60°S and 60°N has indeed continued to decline since 1998. We find that, even though upper stratospheric ozone is recovering, the continuing downward trend in the lower stratosphere prevails, resulting in a downward trend in stratospheric column ozone between 60°S and 60°N."

https://www.atmos-chem-phys.net/18/1379/2018/
04-11-2018 13:51
Lewis Carlson
★☆☆☆☆
(122)
Line radiation events induced by very low frequency transmitters observed by the DEMETER spacecraft: Submitted on 19 Jul 2017

"We presented a detailed systematic analysis of specific electromagnetic wave events observed by the low-altitude DEMETER spacecraft, which are formed by intense emissions at well-defined discrete, harmonically spaced frequencies. The appropriate frequency spectra are typically formed by up to four spectral peaks at multiples of about 1.3 kHz. Additional weaker spectral peaks at 1.9 kHz and 3.2 kHz are occasionally present.

Altogether, 87 such events were identified in the available DEMETER data (about 6 years). The events occurred exclusively during the night, and they did not show any clear relation to the AE and Dst geomagnetic activity indices. We showed that the events are strongly localized, occurring either close to Great Britain or in the vicinity of its geomagnetically conjugated point. It wasfound that the events observed in the Northern Hemisphere generally have larger-frequency bandwidths than those observed in the Southern Hemisphere. We demonstrated that the events are linked to the signals from VLF transmitters in Europe. The bicoherence analysis was employed to demonstrate the wave-wave interactions taking place. Finally, we showed that the occurrence of these TILR events is associated with a significantly increased electron precipitation. Our results demonstrate that powerful VLF transmitters can significantly influence the wave activity in a given magnetic meridian, generating new emissions and resulting in energetic electron precipitation over a wide energy range."

https://hal-insu.archives-ouvertes.fr/insu-01557373/document
04-11-2018 19:34
Into the Night
★★★★★
(6074)
Lewis Carlson wrote:
The ozone layer is between 10 - 50km high, the E layer of the ionosphere is 85km. If 1.45MHz bounced off the ozone layer, it would never even make it to the ionosphere. I don't know which planet you live on, but it isn't this one 'Into The Night'. Go ahead tell me more of your radio wave reflecting ozone layer. Ozone content is actually measured more often from atmospheric NOx content because the two are so closely linked.

https://www.reference.com/science/layer-atmosphere-reflects-radio-waves-e2a247bee2e7323b


Never said radio bounces off the ozone layer, twit. Pay attention.


The Parrot Killer
Edited on 04-11-2018 19:40
04-11-2018 19:43
Into the Night
★★★★★
(6074)
[quote]Lewis Carlson wrote:
Although the stratospheric ozone layer can experience greater depletion in the wake of solar and cosmic ray events, REP is constant and even exhibits consistent patterns. In fact they found that most of the precipitated electrons appear to be from the ionosphere in the aroural region caused by EMIC - electromagnetic ion cyclotron waves which as previously shown is effectively stimulated by broadcast transmission s in and around the ionospheric electron gyrofrequency:
No gyro. No cyclotron.


The Parrot Killer
04-11-2018 19:46
Into the Night
★★★★★
(6074)
Lewis Carlson wrote:
So far it has been clearly demonstrated that broadcast can stimulate Relativistic Electron Precipitation REP and also shown that REP can interact with stratospheric nitrogen to form NOx compounds that play a role in the Chapman cycle and the depletion of the ozone layer which is still thinning in mid latitudes unlike the polar regions which are showing signs of recovery.

REP does not affect the ozone layer. It is not being depleted.
Lewis Carlson wrote:
Though the Chapman cycle is the dominant process of ozone formation and depletion, we are still seeing additional thinning of the ozone layer.. scientists do not know why?

The ozone layer is not thinning or being depleted.
Lewis Carlson wrote:
However some of the worlds leading ionospheric physicists have pointed out that broadcast on a global scale could be contributing to this ozone depletion and have furthermore suggested that it could play a more significant role in climate change than previously thought.

Ozone does not warm the Earth.


The Parrot Killer
04-11-2018 19:46
Into the Night
★★★★★
(6074)
Lewis Carlson wrote:
Research article | 06 Feb 2018

Evidence for a continuous decline in lower stratospheric ozone offsetting ozone layer recovery

"Here we report evidence from multiple satellite measurements that ozone in the lower stratosphere between 60°S and 60°N has indeed continued to decline since 1998. We find that, even though upper stratospheric ozone is recovering, the continuing downward trend in the lower stratosphere prevails, resulting in a downward trend in stratospheric column ozone between 60°S and 60°N."

https://www.atmos-chem-phys.net/18/1379/2018/


Satellites cannot measure ozone. They only measure light.


The Parrot Killer
04-11-2018 21:39
Lewis Carlson
★☆☆☆☆
(122)
Aww .. Into the Night.. I missed you! Glad you came back to me. And yeah.. you did say that it bounces off the ozone layer.. twice.

Into the Night wrote:
Buzzword fallacy. 1.45Mhz is simply reflected off the ozone layer. See information about the propagation of radio, including the monitoring beacons used for measuring it.


Ya flame tard..
04-11-2018 21:41
Lewis Carlson
★☆☆☆☆
(122)
Into the Night wrote:
Lewis Carlson wrote:
Do you think 1.45MHz signals bounce off of the ozone layer as you say? And you you have any scientific research or links to back any of what you are saying up. I've provided plenty.


Yes. See the work of Marconi and literally thousands of amateur radio operators, as well as literally thousands of commercial broadcast radio operators.
04-11-2018 21:45
Lewis Carlson
★☆☆☆☆
(122)
Reread or go back to school and pay attention in class cause your failing the test bro.

Lewis Carlson wrote:
The ozone layer is between 10 - 50km high, the E layer of the ionosphere is 85km. If 1.45MHz bounced off the ozone layer, it would never even make it to the ionosphere. I don't know which planet you live on, but it isn't this one 'Into The Night'. Go ahead tell me more of your radio wave reflecting ozone layer. Ozone content is actually measured more often from atmospheric NOx content because the two are so closely linked.

https://www.reference.com/science/layer-atmosphere-reflects-radio-waves-e2a247bee2e7323b
04-11-2018 21:47
Lewis Carlson
★☆☆☆☆
(122)
I am an amateur radio operator and NO radio waves don't bounce off the OZONE LAYER you dolt. You're just a troll.
04-11-2018 22:05
Lewis Carlson
★☆☆☆☆
(122)
Radio waves don't reflect off the ozone layer and the idea that they only reflect off the ionosphere without modifying the ionospheric plasma is old news. We've moved on from your false views of radio waves bouncing off ozone layers or just off of the ionosphere. Now that we're able to measure it we've learned that there's a whole interplay that occurs between transmitter signals and various layers of the ionospheric plasma.. including the fact that we've known that transmitter signals can and do cause Relativistic / Energetic Electron Precipitation - REP / EEP which further reacts with stratospheric Nitrogen to form NOx compounds that deplete a thinning ozone layer.

If you think it is contrary to this, back up what you say.. or not and just keep talking nonsence Into the Night. I see you were identified by the previous monitor as a troll in this forum. You are a total troll. But come back soon please!

"Recently we have demonstrated experimentally that radio waves from modern radio stations are strong enough that the interaction in the reflecting region of the ionosphere is such that the plasma no longer can be thought of as a passive, reflecting mirror. A more accurate description of the ionospheric plasma is that it self-modifies weakly its reflecting properties more or less in synchronism with the radio waves that propagate through and reflect from it. The fact that the "mirror" so to speak takes an active part in the reflection process is due to weak, complicated, but important non-linear (non-proportional) properties which can lead to turbulence and perhaps even chaos in the plasma. We call this phenomenon ionospheric modification and its manifestation shows that the old, simplistic picture, based on linear models of the physical processes in plasma, is no longer adequate. Like all plasmas in nature, the ionosphere is a complex physical system and not just a passive mirror of radio signals. We have only just begun to understand this complexity and much more basic research is needed before we have an adequate knowledge of the true behavior of the ionosphere and other space plasma."

https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/view/25321698/atmosphere-ionosphere-mission-swedish-institute-of-space-
Edited on 04-11-2018 22:31
05-11-2018 00:08
Lewis Carlson
★☆☆☆☆
(122)
You're a bad troll Into the Night if you discount modern ionospheric physics calling it all BS. It's more complex than we used to think it was, adhering to old simplistic views seriously makes you look foolish.
05-11-2018 00:25
Lewis Carlson
★☆☆☆☆
(122)
"Historical overview of HF ionospheric modification research

Show affiliations
Gordon, William E.; Duncan, Lewis M.
Abstract
Radio waves have inadvertently modified the Earth's ionospher since the Luxembourg observations of Tellegen in 1933 and perhaps since Marconi in 1901. The history of ionospheric modification by radio waves is reviewed, beginning with Marconi, describing the Luxembourg effect and its explanations, and its early use to deduce the properties of the lower ionosphere in the 1930s. The measurements became more sophisticated in the 1950s, leading to the call for high-power high-frequency modification experiments in the upper ionosphere. Beginning in 1970, radio facilities became available of sufficient powers to induce changes in the ionospheric plasma detectable by a wide array of diagnostic instruments and techniques. A summary of these effect is presented based upon work up to 1990. These studies were originally motivated as a means of better understanding the natural ionosphere using a weak perturbational approach. However, a rich spectrum of nonlinear wave-plasma interactions was quickly discovered and ionospheric modifications research became strongly motivated by issues in basic plasma physics. The ionosphere and near-Earth space are now exploited as an exceptional plasma laboratory-without-walls for the study of fundamental plasma processes requiring large spatial or temporal scales."

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1990imip.agar.....G
05-11-2018 03:36
Lewis Carlson
★☆☆☆☆
(122)
What is a gyrofrequency and why is it effective at stimulating a known ozone depletion mechanism through Electron Precipitation/NOx formation -->(EEP NOx)?

"1400 kHz Gyro Frequency - November 6th Fact-of-the-Day:

Earth's magnetic field passes through the ionosphere and exerts a force on ionospheric electrons that is proportional to their instantaneous velocities and to the component of the magnetic field at right angles to their directions of motion. The force direction is at right angles to the component of the magnetic field producing the deflecting force and also to electron motion directions caused by radio waves. The effect at high radio frequencies is to cause each electron to vibrate in an elliptical path and at low radio frequencies to vibrate in a loop. A crossover between elliptical and loop electron paths occurs at approximately 1400 kHz where each electron moves in a spiral path. That special frequency is called the gyro frequency." https://www.smeter.net/daily-facts/11/fact6.php

"Already in the mid 1970's it was discovered, somewhat unexpectedly, that electromagnetic radiation from ground-based HF radio transmitters can, if powerful enough, create irregularities in the otherwise smooth overhead ionosphere. These "artificial" irregularities have scale lengths ranging from meters to tens of kilometers and are the result of the nonlinear and turbulent interaction of the radiation with the ionospheric plasma (Robinson, 1989).

Since the power density required for the excitation of such irregularities are comparable to those emitted by today's major HF broadcasting stations, there is a growing concern about the possible harmful impact on the Earth's upper atmosphere by such human activities on the ground."

http://www.mso.anu.edu.au/~fbriggs/LOFAR_SciApp_1.0.pdf
Edited on 05-11-2018 03:43
05-11-2018 22:16
Into the Night
★★★★★
(6074)
Lewis Carlson wrote:
I am an amateur radio operator and NO radio waves don't bounce off the OZONE LAYER you dolt. You're just a troll.


I know they don't. I don't believe your claim that you are an amateur radio operator either.


The Parrot Killer
05-11-2018 22:17
Into the Night
★★★★★
(6074)
Lewis Carlson wrote:
You're a bad troll Into the Night if you discount modern ionospheric physics calling it all BS. It's more complex than we used to think it was, adhering to old simplistic views seriously makes you look foolish.


Nah. You're just ignoring physics and spewing buzzwords again.


The Parrot Killer
05-11-2018 22:17
Into the Night
★★★★★
(6074)
Lewis Carlson wrote:
What is a gyrofrequency and why is it effective at stimulating a known ozone depletion mechanism through Electron Precipitation/NOx formation -->(EEP NOx)?

"1400 kHz Gyro Frequency - November 6th Fact-of-the-Day:

Earth's magnetic field passes through the ionosphere and exerts a force on ionospheric electrons that is proportional to their instantaneous velocities and to the component of the magnetic field at right angles to their directions of motion. The force direction is at right angles to the component of the magnetic field producing the deflecting force and also to electron motion directions caused by radio waves. The effect at high radio frequencies is to cause each electron to vibrate in an elliptical path and at low radio frequencies to vibrate in a loop. A crossover between elliptical and loop electron paths occurs at approximately 1400 kHz where each electron moves in a spiral path. That special frequency is called the gyro frequency." https://www.smeter.net/daily-facts/11/fact6.php

"Already in the mid 1970's it was discovered, somewhat unexpectedly, that electromagnetic radiation from ground-based HF radio transmitters can, if powerful enough, create irregularities in the otherwise smooth overhead ionosphere. These "artificial" irregularities have scale lengths ranging from meters to tens of kilometers and are the result of the nonlinear and turbulent interaction of the radiation with the ionospheric plasma (Robinson, 1989).

Since the power density required for the excitation of such irregularities are comparable to those emitted by today's major HF broadcasting stations, there is a growing concern about the possible harmful impact on the Earth's upper atmosphere by such human activities on the ground."

http://www.mso.anu.edu.au/~fbriggs/LOFAR_SciApp_1.0.pdf


No gyro. The ionosophere doesn't the ozone layer.


The Parrot Killer
Edited on 05-11-2018 22:19
05-11-2018 22:40
Lewis Carlson
★☆☆☆☆
(122)
Into the Night wrote:
Lewis Carlson wrote:
I am an amateur radio operator and NO radio waves don't bounce off the OZONE LAYER you dolt. You're just a troll.


I know they don't. I don't believe your claim that you are an amateur radio operator either.


You seemed pretty sure they did when I even asked you a second time. You really just aren't paying attention Into the Night and I don't give a flying F' what you believe you bolt hole of a troll. Not only do I have a license, but I volunteered with local Law Enforcement and FEMA in auxiliary communications.

Edited on 05-11-2018 22:41
05-11-2018 22:48
Lewis Carlson
★☆☆☆☆
(122)
Into the Night wrote:
Lewis Carlson wrote:
You're a bad troll Into the Night if you discount modern ionospheric physics calling it all BS. It's more complex than we used to think it was, adhering to old simplistic views seriously makes you look foolish.


Nah. You're just ignoring physics and spewing buzzwords again.


If you're whole point here is to tell me that radio waves bounce of the ionosphere..

-->duh numb nuts! AND they also modify the ionospheric plasma.
This is a FACT!!

"1400 kHz Gyro Frequency - November 6th Fact-of-the-Day:

Earth's magnetic field passes through the ionosphere and exerts a force on ionospheric electrons that is proportional to their instantaneous velocities and to the component of the magnetic field at right angles to their directions of motion. The force direction is at right angles to the component of the magnetic field producing the deflecting force and also to electron motion directions caused by radio waves. The effect at high radio frequencies is to cause each electron to vibrate in an elliptical path and at low radio frequencies to vibrate in a loop. A crossover between elliptical and loop electron paths occurs at approximately 1400 kHz where each electron moves in a spiral path. That special frequency is called the gyro frequency." https://www.smeter.net/daily-facts/11/fact6.php

But tell me I'm ignoring physics again.. pwning you is music to my ears.. I'm glad you came back to get pwned again.. TROLL

I was getting bored without you.
Edited on 05-11-2018 23:13
05-11-2018 22:50
Lewis Carlson
★☆☆☆☆
(122)
Into the Night wrote:
No gyro. The ionosophere doesn't the ozone layer.


Doesn't what? Now your sentence structure is failing bro.. boring!
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