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How do you argue with someone who believes all the evidence for climate change is fabricated?



Page 2 of 2<12
09-06-2018 19:06
moncktonProfile picture★★★☆☆
(409)
"Modern frames for vintage souls ..." http://www.chapmancycles.com
09-06-2018 19:31
James___
★★☆☆☆
(322)
monckton wrote:
"Modern frames for vintage souls ..." http://www.chapmancycles.com



...Is this how to Tour France ? Il est tres bon idea. J'aime t'il !
10-06-2018 01:35
James___
★★☆☆☆
(322)
James___ wrote:

..The tropopause is about -56° C. and the mesopause is about -80° C.
.The stratosphere is about 0° C. Since the tropopause is below the warm stratosphere, what's heating the troposphere ?




...@All,
..This is what the debate is about. A watt of energy is 1 joule for 1 second. Heat in our atmosphere is measured in w/m^2. This means for 1 square meter of surface area, so many watts per square meter can be measured.
..The difference in air pressure does not allow for this. This is why I believe that heat is being released from within the earth itself and that atmospheric gasses do store heat.
10-06-2018 02:22
moncktonProfile picture★★★☆☆
(409)
I can't say I agree, but that's nicely laid out.
10-06-2018 07:23
Into the Night
★★★★★
(5279)
James___ wrote:
James___ wrote:

..The tropopause is about -56° C. and the mesopause is about -80° C.
.The stratosphere is about 0° C. Since the tropopause is below the warm stratosphere, what's heating the troposphere ?




...@All,
..This is what the debate is about. A watt of energy is 1 joule for 1 second. Heat in our atmosphere is measured in w/m^2. This means for 1 square meter of surface area, so many watts per square meter can be measured.

Which is pretty meaningless. It doesn't take into account what is actually absorbed by the Earth.
James___ wrote:
..The difference in air pressure does not allow for this. This is why I believe that heat is being released from within the earth itself and that atmospheric gasses do store heat.

It is not possible to store or trap heat.


The Parrot Killer
10-06-2018 10:03
LikeanImon
☆☆☆☆☆
(4)
Hi,

there are some "scientists" getting payed by economical or political players. But most of them are climate deniers intending to spread out disbelief and disinformation about global warming like Willie Wei-Hock Soon. You could argue that due to natural occurring phenomena, the temperature on earth rather tends to cool down the earth nowadays.

Greetings,

LikeanImon
10-06-2018 14:46
James___
★★☆☆☆
(322)
@All,
..One point that I was making is when the temperature is either -56° C. or -80° C. is that the watts of energy per square meter is not very high. In other words the amount of joules entering our atmosphere is quite low. Since it is not slowed, trapped or otherwise stored then why does the watts per square meter increase ?

..When I was reading this it seems that Charles R. Anderson, Ph.D. has his own opinion as well.

https://principia-scientific.org/a-critical-lesson-from-the-nasa-earth-energy-budget/
10-06-2018 17:01
James___
★★☆☆☆
(322)
..Some random numbers;

...1 joule per square meter (J/m2) = 0.000088 BTUth per square foot (BTUth/ft2)
1 square meter = 10.764 square feet

..A Btu is the amount of energy it takes to either raise or lower atmospheric temperature.
The lack of temperature in both the tropoause and the mesopause is because of a lack of energy. If the tropoause is reckoned as atmosphere then that would suggest that a small amount of energy is warming our atmosphere.
..In the mesosphere it is warmer because of radiation. This means that there is more energy above the mesosphere than in the mesopause below it. So how much heat is flowing through the mesopause when it's -100° C. ?
..They do not list the daytime and nighttime temperatures which I think would matter unless it's also that cold during the day.
10-06-2018 18:56
James___
★★☆☆☆
(322)
..The temperature measurement of the mesopause. 180 kelvins = -93.15° C. or -135.67° F.
196 kelvins = -77.15° C. or -106.87° F.

At high noon, 8 h later, the temperature on the shoulder (86 km) remains nearly the same, i.e.,180 +/- 5K, whereas the Na peak has risen to 92.7 km,with a temperature of 196 +/- 3K.

Daytime mesopause temperature... (PDF Download Available). Available from: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/38054711_Daytime_mesopause_temperature_measurements_with_a_sodium-vapor_dispersive_Faraday_filter_in_a_lidar_receiver
[accessed Jun 10 2018].

Edited on 10-06-2018 19:05
10-06-2018 20:20
Into the Night
★★★★★
(5279)
James___ wrote:
@All,
..One point that I was making is when the temperature is either -56° C. or -80° C. is that the watts of energy per square meter is not very high. In other words the amount of joules entering our atmosphere is quite low. Since it is not slowed, trapped or otherwise stored then why does the watts per square meter increase ?

..When I was reading this it seems that Charles R. Anderson, Ph.D. has his own opinion as well.

https://principia-scientific.org/a-critical-lesson-from-the-nasa-earth-energy-budget/


For a measurement taken on the surface?

Any number of reasons. Cloudy day, haze, smoke or other particulates in the atmosphere, denser air (high air pressure), etc.

The number also has nothing to do with what is actually absorbed by Earth, or how much of that absorption goes into heating the Earth.


The Parrot Killer
10-06-2018 20:22
Into the Night
★★★★★
(5279)
James___ wrote:
..Some random numbers;

...1 joule per square meter (J/m2) = 0.000088 BTUth per square foot (BTUth/ft2)
1 square meter = 10.764 square feet

..A Btu is the amount of energy it takes to either raise or lower atmospheric temperature.
The lack of temperature in both the tropoause and the mesopause is because of a lack of energy. If the tropoause is reckoned as atmosphere then that would suggest that a small amount of energy is warming our atmosphere.
..In the mesosphere it is warmer because of radiation. This means that there is more energy above the mesosphere than in the mesopause below it. So how much heat is flowing through the mesopause when it's -100° C. ?
..They do not list the daytime and nighttime temperatures which I think would matter unless it's also that cold during the day.


Irrelevant question. The mesopause is not any sort of 'gateway' for heat.


The Parrot Killer
10-06-2018 23:46
James___
★★☆☆☆
(322)
Into the Night wrote:
James___ wrote:
..Some random numbers;

...1 joule per square meter (J/m2) = 0.000088 BTUth per square foot (BTUth/ft2)
1 square meter = 10.764 square feet

..A Btu is the amount of energy it takes to either raise or lower atmospheric temperature.
The lack of temperature in both the tropoause and the mesopause is because of a lack of energy. If the tropoause is reckoned as atmosphere then that would suggest that a small amount of energy is warming our atmosphere.
..In the mesosphere it is warmer because of radiation. This means that there is more energy above the mesosphere than in the mesopause below it. So how much heat is flowing through the mesopause when it's -100° C. ?
..They do not list the daytime and nighttime temperatures which I think would matter unless it's also that cold during the day.


Irrelevant question. The mesopause is not any sort of 'gateway' for heat.



..Now you're just "parroting " me. This makes you redundant. :-)
11-06-2018 07:26
Into the Night
★★★★★
(5279)
James___ wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
James___ wrote:
..Some random numbers;

...1 joule per square meter (J/m2) = 0.000088 BTUth per square foot (BTUth/ft2)
1 square meter = 10.764 square feet

..A Btu is the amount of energy it takes to either raise or lower atmospheric temperature.
The lack of temperature in both the tropoause and the mesopause is because of a lack of energy. If the tropoause is reckoned as atmosphere then that would suggest that a small amount of energy is warming our atmosphere.
..In the mesosphere it is warmer because of radiation. This means that there is more energy above the mesosphere than in the mesopause below it. So how much heat is flowing through the mesopause when it's -100° C. ?
..They do not list the daytime and nighttime temperatures which I think would matter unless it's also that cold during the day.


Irrelevant question. The mesopause is not any sort of 'gateway' for heat.



..Now you're just "parroting " me. This makes you redundant. :-)

Contextomy.


The Parrot Killer
11-06-2018 08:54
Tim the plumber
★★★★☆
(1115)
James___ wrote:
James___ wrote:

..The tropopause is about -56° C. and the mesopause is about -80° C.
.The stratosphere is about 0° C. Since the tropopause is below the warm stratosphere, what's heating the troposphere ?




...@All,
..This is what the debate is about. A watt of energy is 1 joule for 1 second. Heat in our atmosphere is measured in w/m^2. This means for 1 square meter of surface area, so many watts per square meter can be measured.
..The difference in air pressure does not allow for this. This is why I believe that heat is being released from within the earth itself and that atmospheric gasses do store heat.


No. Heat energy in the air is measured in Joules.

Incoming or outgoing heat energy per second is measured in Watts per unit area.
11-06-2018 12:04
James___
★★☆☆☆
(322)
Tim the plumber wrote:

No. Heat energy in the air is measured in Joules.

Incoming or outgoing heat energy per second is measured in Watts per unit area.




...Tim,
.. The solar constant is measured in w/m^2 which is why I consider that. A few posts ago (10-06-2018 17:01) I also mentioned joules and Btus.
https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/solar-constant.108178/
..What's interesting about this is if we used something similar to consider the amount of energy in the mesosphere then calculated for the lower temperature in the mesopause.

...The link is to how a vacuum thermos works. A vacuum slows the transfer of heat. With both the mesopause and the tropopause it could be argued that the temperature drop is allowed because of a Joules-Thomson field.
..What this also suggests is that the mesopause and the tropopause help to insulate the troposphere.
https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/89411/please-describe-how-a-vacuum-flask-thermos-works

..An image of the Van Allen Belts during the day and at night. I think our atmosphere is more complex than what is currently being considered.
https://binged.it/2kYVsea

..The solar constant is about 1,366 w/m^2 or 1.366 Kw/m^2.
https://www.britannica.com/science/solar-constant
Attached image:


Edited on 11-06-2018 12:48
11-06-2018 18:13
Into the Night
★★★★★
(5279)
James___ wrote:
Tim the plumber wrote:

No. Heat energy in the air is measured in Joules.

Incoming or outgoing heat energy per second is measured in Watts per unit area.




...Tim,
.. The solar constant is measured in w/m^2 which is why I consider that. A few posts ago (10-06-2018 17:01) I also mentioned joules and Btus.
https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/solar-constant.108178/
..What's interesting about this is if we used something similar to consider the amount of energy in the mesosphere then calculated for the lower temperature in the mesopause.

...The link is to how a vacuum thermos works. A vacuum slows the transfer of heat. With both the mesopause and the tropopause it could be argued that the temperature drop is allowed because of a Joules-Thomson field.
..What this also suggests is that the mesopause and the tropopause help to insulate the troposphere.
https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/89411/please-describe-how-a-vacuum-flask-thermos-works

..An image of the Van Allen Belts during the day and at night. I think our atmosphere is more complex than what is currently being considered.
https://binged.it/2kYVsea

..The solar constant is about 1,366 w/m^2 or 1.366 Kw/m^2.
https://www.britannica.com/science/solar-constant


Neither the mesopause nor the tropopause stop radiance from Earth. They don't insulate anything.

The solar constant by itself is meaningless. Earth's temperature is also governed by how much is actually absorbed, and only that absorption that results in heating.

Not all absorption results in heating.

Not all sunlight striking the Earth is absorbed.

The Van Allen belts are far outside the Earth's atmosphere.


The Parrot Killer
Edited on 11-06-2018 18:13
12-06-2018 11:04
James___
★★☆☆☆
(322)
Into the Night wrote:
James___ wrote:
Tim the plumber wrote:

No. Heat energy in the air is measured in Joules.

Incoming or outgoing heat energy per second is measured in Watts per unit area.




...Tim,
.. The solar constant is measured in w/m^2 which is why I consider that. A few posts ago (10-06-2018 17:01) I also mentioned joules and Btus.
https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/solar-constant.108178/
..What's interesting about this is if we used something similar to consider the amount of energy in the mesosphere then calculated for the lower temperature in the mesopause.

...The link is to how a vacuum thermos works. A vacuum slows the transfer of heat. With both the mesopause and the tropopause it could be argued that the temperature drop is allowed because of a Joules-Thomson field.
..What this also suggests is that the mesopause and the tropopause help to insulate the troposphere.
https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/89411/please-describe-how-a-vacuum-flask-thermos-works

..An image of the Van Allen Belts during the day and at night. I think our atmosphere is more complex than what is currently being considered.
https://binged.it/2kYVsea

..The solar constant is about 1,366 w/m^2 or 1.366 Kw/m^2.
https://www.britannica.com/science/solar-constant


Neither the mesopause nor the tropopause stop radiance from Earth. They don't insulate anything.

The solar constant by itself is meaningless. Earth's temperature is also governed by how much is actually absorbed, and only that absorption that results in heating.

Not all absorption results in heating.

Not all sunlight striking the Earth is absorbed.

The Van Allen belts are far outside the Earth's atmosphere.



...itn, You really need to leave something to be said instead of acting like you just explained everything. What happened to the Stefmann-Boltzmann constant ?
When the mesopause is at -136° F. or -93.3° C. I'm quite sure the Earth's emissivity is really up there. Get it ? The mesopause is really up there, LMAO because I said a funny. Yep, according to you itn, lot's of heat going out there.


..@All,
.With the tropopause and the mesopause, non-local behavior can account for why there are 2 cold regions in our atmosphere. The 2 regions are equal but opposing effects of the Van Allen radiation belts (A radiation belt is a layer of energetic charged particles). There are 2 belts and there are 2 cold layers to our atmosphere.

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/427174/einsteins-spooky-action-at-a-distance-paradox-older-than-thought/
Edited on 12-06-2018 12:03
12-06-2018 18:10
Into the Night
★★★★★
(5279)
James___ wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
James___ wrote:
Tim the plumber wrote:

No. Heat energy in the air is measured in Joules.

Incoming or outgoing heat energy per second is measured in Watts per unit area.




...Tim,
.. The solar constant is measured in w/m^2 which is why I consider that. A few posts ago (10-06-2018 17:01) I also mentioned joules and Btus.
https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/solar-constant.108178/
..What's interesting about this is if we used something similar to consider the amount of energy in the mesosphere then calculated for the lower temperature in the mesopause.

...The link is to how a vacuum thermos works. A vacuum slows the transfer of heat. With both the mesopause and the tropopause it could be argued that the temperature drop is allowed because of a Joules-Thomson field.
..What this also suggests is that the mesopause and the tropopause help to insulate the troposphere.
https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/89411/please-describe-how-a-vacuum-flask-thermos-works

..An image of the Van Allen Belts during the day and at night. I think our atmosphere is more complex than what is currently being considered.
https://binged.it/2kYVsea

..The solar constant is about 1,366 w/m^2 or 1.366 Kw/m^2.
https://www.britannica.com/science/solar-constant


Neither the mesopause nor the tropopause stop radiance from Earth. They don't insulate anything.

The solar constant by itself is meaningless. Earth's temperature is also governed by how much is actually absorbed, and only that absorption that results in heating.

Not all absorption results in heating.

Not all sunlight striking the Earth is absorbed.

The Van Allen belts are far outside the Earth's atmosphere.



...itn, You really need to leave something to be said instead of acting like you just explained everything.

I did explain everything.
James___ wrote:
What happened to the Stefmann-Boltzmann constant ?

Nothing.
James___ wrote:
When the mesopause is at -136° F. or -93.3° C.

Unrelated.
James___ wrote:
I'm quite sure the Earth's emissivity is really up there.

How do you know? How many thermometers did you use to measure Earth's emissivity?
James___ wrote:
Get it ? The mesopause is really up there, LMAO because I said a funny.

Meh.
James___ wrote:
Yep, according to you itn, lot's of heat going out there.

None of it goes into space except by radiance. Most radiance comes from the surface itself, not the atmosphere. Very little comes from the atmosphere.
James___ wrote:
..@All,
.With the tropopause and the mesopause, non-local behavior can account for why there are 2 cold regions in our atmosphere. The 2 regions are equal but opposing effects of the Van Allen radiation belts (A radiation belt is a layer of energetic charged particles).

False equivalence. The Van Allen belts are not in the atmosphere.
James___ wrote:
There are 2 belts and there are 2 cold layers to our atmosphere.

False equivalence. The Van Allen belts are not in the atmosphere.

The reason for the two cold regions has already been explained:

1) The Chapman cycle
2) the absorption of radiation from the sun as it enters the upper atmosphere.


The Parrot Killer
12-06-2018 20:01
James___
★★☆☆☆
(322)
...itn,
..My brother Harold always said that if you can't dazzle'em with brilliance then baffle them with bullsh1t. With you around it smells like a farm in here.
12-06-2018 22:01
Into the Night
★★★★★
(5279)
James___ wrote:
...itn,
..My brother Harold always said that if you can't dazzle'em with brilliance then baffle them with bullsh1t. With you around it smells like a farm in here.


I can't help it if you deny chemistry, meteorology, or physics. That's YOUR problem.

Argument of the stone. Inversion fallacy.


The Parrot Killer
12-06-2018 22:26
James___
★★☆☆☆
(322)
Into the Night wrote:
James___ wrote:
...itn,
..My brother Harold always said that if you can't dazzle'em with brilliance then baffle them with bullsh1t. With you around it smells like a farm in here.


I can't help it if you deny chemistry, meteorology, or physics. That's YOUR problem.

Argument of the stone. Inversion fallacy.



..can't you come up with something original for a change ?
13-06-2018 00:59
James___
★★☆☆☆
(322)
James___ wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
James___ wrote:
...itn,
..My brother Harold always said that if you can't dazzle'em with brilliance then baffle them with bullsh1t. With you around it smells like a farm in here.


I can't help it if you deny chemistry, meteorology, or physics. That's YOUR problem.

Argument of the stone. Inversion fallacy.



..can't you come up with something original for a change ?



...@All,
..If waste heat is the problem then a better solar panel would be a step in the right direction. With desalination, salt disperses evenly in water. If a membrane is coated with salt then larger holes than what is currently used might work. Then the salt coating might repel the salt in sea water. I haven't heard of trying to use salt to repel salt.
https://www.illustrativemathematics.org/content-standards/tasks/180

.How reverse osmosis works, it uses about 1,200 psi (80 kg/cm^2) of pressure to push water molecules through a membrane with pores smaller in diameter than salt but larger than water. The image shows high salt content water draining before the membrane. I would explain more about how this works but salt being repelled by a salted membrane would require less pressure. This would be because it could have larger pores in it's membrane.
https://binged.it/2y4Y2Zl
Edited on 13-06-2018 01:02
13-06-2018 01:23
Into the Night
★★★★★
(5279)
James___ wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
James___ wrote:
...itn,
..My brother Harold always said that if you can't dazzle'em with brilliance then baffle them with bullsh1t. With you around it smells like a farm in here.


I can't help it if you deny chemistry, meteorology, or physics. That's YOUR problem.

Argument of the stone. Inversion fallacy.



..can't you come up with something original for a change ?


Stop making the same mistakes, I I'll stop calling you on them.


The Parrot Killer
13-06-2018 01:29
Into the Night
★★★★★
(5279)
James___ wrote:
James___ wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
James___ wrote:
...itn,
..My brother Harold always said that if you can't dazzle'em with brilliance then baffle them with bullsh1t. With you around it smells like a farm in here.


I can't help it if you deny chemistry, meteorology, or physics. That's YOUR problem.

Argument of the stone. Inversion fallacy.



..can't you come up with something original for a change ?



...@All,
..If waste heat is the problem

What is the 'waste heat' you are referring to?
James___ wrote:
then a better solar panel would be a step in the right direction.

More efficient solar panels are always better. Unfortunately, the power they produce is miniscule to the power produced by a traditional power plant using natural gas, oil, hydroelectric, or nuclear. They are expensive power.
James___ wrote:
With desalination, salt disperses evenly in water.

Nope. The whole point of desalination is to remove the salt. That is not equal dispersion anymore.
James___ wrote:
If a membrane is coated with salt then larger holes than what is currently used might work.

Nope. The salt in the membrane just dissolves into the water (if it can accept more salt). Otherwise, it's just a plugged membrane.
James___ wrote:
Then the salt coating might repel the salt in sea water.

Nope. Same salt.
James___ wrote:
I haven't heard of trying to use salt to repel salt.

Because it doesn't work.
James___ wrote:
.How reverse osmosis works, it uses about 1,200 psi (80 kg/cm^2) of pressure to push water molecules through a membrane with pores smaller in diameter than salt but larger than water.

That's about right.
James___ wrote:
The image shows high salt content water draining before the membrane. I would explain more about how this works but salt being repelled by a salted membrane would require less pressure.

Salt is not repelled by salt.
James___ wrote:
This would be because it could have larger pores in it's membrane.

Nope. Just a plugged membrane. It's time to clean it or replace it.


The Parrot Killer
13-06-2018 03:42
James___
★★☆☆☆
(322)
Into the Night wrote:
James___ wrote:
James___ wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
James___ wrote:
...itn,
..My brother Harold always said that if you can't dazzle'em with brilliance then baffle them with bullsh1t. With you around it smells like a farm in here.


I can't help it if you deny chemistry, meteorology, or physics. That's YOUR problem.

Argument of the stone. Inversion fallacy.



..can't you come up with something original for a change ?



...@All,
..If waste heat is the problem

What is the 'waste heat' you are referring to?
James___ wrote:
then a better solar panel would be a step in the right direction.

More efficient solar panels are always better. Unfortunately, the power they produce is miniscule to the power produced by a traditional power plant using natural gas, oil, hydroelectric, or nuclear. They are expensive power.
James___ wrote:
With desalination, salt disperses evenly in water.

Nope. The whole point of desalination is to remove the salt. That is not equal dispersion anymore.
James___ wrote:
If a membrane is coated with salt then larger holes than what is currently used might work.

Nope. The salt in the membrane just dissolves into the water (if it can accept more salt). Otherwise, it's just a plugged membrane.
James___ wrote:
Then the salt coating might repel the salt in sea water.

Nope. Same salt.
James___ wrote:
I haven't heard of trying to use salt to repel salt.

Because it doesn't work.
James___ wrote:
.How reverse osmosis works, it uses about 1,200 psi (80 kg/cm^2) of pressure to push water molecules through a membrane with pores smaller in diameter than salt but larger than water.

That's about right.
James___ wrote:
The image shows high salt content water draining before the membrane. I would explain more about how this works but salt being repelled by a salted membrane would require less pressure.

Salt is not repelled by salt.
James___ wrote:
This would be because it could have larger pores in it's membrane.

Nope. Just a plugged membrane. It's time to clean it or replace it.



...itn,
..You've got some serious problems. Have you talked to a doctor about them ?
You're a real HATER.
13-06-2018 15:31
Into the Night
★★★★★
(5279)
James___ wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
James___ wrote:
James___ wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
James___ wrote:
...itn,
..My brother Harold always said that if you can't dazzle'em with brilliance then baffle them with bullsh1t. With you around it smells like a farm in here.


I can't help it if you deny chemistry, meteorology, or physics. That's YOUR problem.

Argument of the stone. Inversion fallacy.



..can't you come up with something original for a change ?



...@All,
..If waste heat is the problem

What is the 'waste heat' you are referring to?
James___ wrote:
then a better solar panel would be a step in the right direction.

More efficient solar panels are always better. Unfortunately, the power they produce is miniscule to the power produced by a traditional power plant using natural gas, oil, hydroelectric, or nuclear. They are expensive power.
James___ wrote:
With desalination, salt disperses evenly in water.

Nope. The whole point of desalination is to remove the salt. That is not equal dispersion anymore.
James___ wrote:
If a membrane is coated with salt then larger holes than what is currently used might work.

Nope. The salt in the membrane just dissolves into the water (if it can accept more salt). Otherwise, it's just a plugged membrane.
James___ wrote:
Then the salt coating might repel the salt in sea water.

Nope. Same salt.
James___ wrote:
I haven't heard of trying to use salt to repel salt.

Because it doesn't work.
James___ wrote:
.How reverse osmosis works, it uses about 1,200 psi (80 kg/cm^2) of pressure to push water molecules through a membrane with pores smaller in diameter than salt but larger than water.

That's about right.
James___ wrote:
The image shows high salt content water draining before the membrane. I would explain more about how this works but salt being repelled by a salted membrane would require less pressure.

Salt is not repelled by salt.
James___ wrote:
This would be because it could have larger pores in it's membrane.

Nope. Just a plugged membrane. It's time to clean it or replace it.



...itn,
..You've got some serious problems. Have you talked to a doctor about them ?
You're a real HATER.


You DO take it personally, don't you?

Why don't you go learn some actual physics instead of continuing to believe the weird ideas you have?


The Parrot Killer
Page 2 of 2<12





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