Great Barrier Reef Problem

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Great Barrier Reef Problem30-05-2016 10:41
Totototo ★☆☆☆☆ (117)	http://www.smh.com.au/environment/climate-change/huge-wake-up-call-third-of-central-northern-great-barrier-reef-corals-dead-20160528-gp6dc9.html#ixzz4A54uDRbV Damn, sounds bad. Edited on 30-05-2016 10:42
30-05-2016 17:20
IBdaMann★★★★★ (14389)	Totototo wrote: http://www.smh.com.au/environment/climate-change/huge-wake-up-call-third-of-central-northern-great-barrier-reef-corals-dead-20160528-gp6dc9.html#ixzz4A54uDRbV Damn, sounds bad. When I walk through any forest or wooded area, I see many dead branches and an occasional tree that is just dead. Did the Christian "Satan" do it to spite "God," did humans cause it to spite "Climate" or were there probably other natural factors at play like disease, damage, biochemical reactions, etc..? I don't think i can [define it]. I just kind of get a feel for the phrase. - keepit A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist. The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank :sigh* Not the "raw data" crap.* - Leafsdude IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
30-05-2016 17:45
Tim the plumber ★★★★☆ (1356)	The damage to the reef seems to be most around Cooktown and not in the hotter waters to the North. This strongly implies that it is not global warming and CO2 that is the trouble but something else. The fixation on CO2 will stop any other research either happening in the first place or any results of it being used as it will not fit wth the narritive of the new AGW religion. It is very important that such research happens and that the real culprit is found so that we can have the right response to it.
31-05-2016 17:23
IBdaMann★★★★★ (14389)	Totototo wrote:Damn, sounds bad. People like warming. Are there any GOOD things about Global Warming to report, or is Global Warming only about "Climate" punishing humanity for its carbon sins? . I don't think i can [define it]. I just kind of get a feel for the phrase. - keepit A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist. The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank :sigh* Not the "raw data" crap.* - Leafsdude IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
31-05-2016 22:02
Into the Night★★★★★ (21588)	IBdaMann wrote: Totototo wrote:Damn, sounds bad. People like warming. Are there any GOOD things about Global Warming to report, or is Global Warming only about "Climate" punishing humanity for its carbon sins? . You forget. It's the Holy Gas that reveals all men's sins. The Parrot Killer Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan

02-06-2016 01:03
Totototo ★☆☆☆☆ (117)	I just thought it was interesting to share the article.
02-06-2016 03:21
Into the Night★★★★★ (21588)	Totototo wrote: I just thought it was interesting to share the article. This particular brand of propaganda makes its rounds anytime we have a shift in ocean water temperatures around the Great Barrier Reef. As usual, much of the media catches on and starts tooting its own horn about the 'disaster'. Any sudden shift in water temperature causes the reef to adapt by slewing off algae that favors one temperature so that algae favoring the new temperature will have room to grow. Some of the reef dies off due to the lack of food supply, but is quickly recovered by as little as one year. An El Nino shifts the water temperature around the reef to colder water by allowing warmer water to move eastward. El Nino does not add energy to the ocean, nor is it an indication of added energy to the ocean. It is simply a slight shift in ocean currents (like weather is for us). The cold water is actually good for the reef, since it brings up additional nutrients from below. Warmer surface water tends to snuff out this enrichment, which is why fish go elsewhere than the usual haunts along the Eastern Pacific. They follow the food supply. The reef has seen El Ninos for thousands of years. It has seen glacial periods and much warmer periods than now. It is still there. Samples taken at some 47 sites show the reef has been stable since 1995, despite the variations in coverage. This is just another season of transition for the reef. It'll be back. The Parrot Killer Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
02-06-2016 06:52
JamesTankard ☆☆☆☆☆ (5)	Into the Night wrote: Totototo wrote: I just thought it was interesting to share the article. The reef has seen El Ninos for thousands of years. It has seen glacial periods and much warmer periods than now. It is still there. Could you please post some links to the research indicating that coral bleaching is not rising globally at an unprecedented rate? I mean we have fossil records that dont indicate any recent die offs of coral, at least on this scale, in the recent past. Also, your assumption that the El Nino Southern Oscillation (ENSO) has any significant effect on coral reefs is a bit misleading as this climatic cycle effects different areas of the globe in different ways, for example, during some well documented strong ENSO cycles many reefs in the South Pacific actually experienced decreases in ocean water temperatures near surface that would reduce the vulnerability of corals to bleaching. Not to mention that ocean temperature is not the only factor causing coral bleaching. Increased ocean pH due to higher atmospheric concentrations of carbon dioxide greatly contributes to the bleaching (http://climateinterpreter.org/content/effects-ocean-acidification-coral-reefs).
03-06-2016 11:51
Into the Night★★★★★ (21588)	JamesTankard wrote: Into the Night wrote: Totototo wrote: I just thought it was interesting to share the article. The reef has seen El Ninos for thousands of years. It has seen glacial periods and much warmer periods than now. It is still there. Could you please post some links to the research indicating that coral bleaching is not rising globally at an unprecedented rate? I have already given reference to the institution. Look it up yourself. JamesTankard wrote: I mean we have fossil records that don[']t indicate any recent die offs of coral, at least on this scale, in the recent past. Sorry, I don't have links or references to sources thousands of years old. Neither do I have a time machine. JamesTankard wrote: Also, your assumption that the El Nino Southern Oscillation (ENSO) has any significant effect on coral reefs is a bit misleading as this climatic cycle effects different areas of the globe in different ways, True, but we are talking about the effects on the reef, aren't we? JamesTankard wrote: for example, during some well documented strong ENSO cycles many reefs in the South Pacific actually experienced decreases in ocean water temperatures near surface that would reduce the vulnerability of corals to bleaching. You do not understand the El Nino, even though I have already described it to you. During El Nino, warm water moves east. During a La Nina, warm water moves west. Any sudden change in water temperature causes a die-off. JamesTankard wrote: Not to mention that ocean temperature is not the only factor causing coral bleaching. True. Certain pollutants can, but none such pollution levels are found in the Great Barrier Reef. JamesTankard wrote: Increased ocean pH due to higher atmospheric concentrations of carbon dioxide greatly contributes to the bleaching ...deleted link to ocean 'acidification' propaganda... First, an acid is lower pH than an alkaline. Second, the ocean water is alkaline. Third, adding an acid to an alkaline is not 'acidifying' it. The correct term is 'neutralization'. It is impossible to acidify something unless it is neutral or already an acid. The entire pH scale is based on this concept. It is meaningless to refer to it any other way. Finally, you seem to not understand the chemistry of carbon dioxide in water, particularly sea water. To use a concentrated example, consider your average fizzy soft drink (Coke if you like a brand name here). In these drinks, carbon dioxide is forced into the water at high pressure. The reason you use high pressure is because the amount dissolved in the water is dependent primarily on the pressure used. At a particular pressure (such as normal atmospheric pressure), the water can only hold so much. Any excess is vented back to the atmosphere. Any lack is absorbed into the water. This is why your Coke goes flat if left out at atmospheric pressure. Most of the carbon dioxide does not react at all. It simply dissolves in the water. The small amount that does react forms carbonic acid. In ocean water, this acid is critical to the survival of shelled ocean critters. As carbonic acid comes in contact with limestone (near the shores and on the seabed), that limestone dissolves becoming calcium carbonate. Shellfish require this calcium carbonate to make their shells. Without carbonic acid, the limestone will not dissolve, and the shellfish are deprived of a required material for their shells. They cannot use the limestone directly. Calcium carbonate is *beneficial* to shellfish. They cannot survive without it! Carbon dioxide is vital to the production of calcium carbonate. The calcium remains locked up in limestone without it! Corals are a type of shellfish. They depend on this calcium cycle as much as clams and oysters do. For references, consult a book on chemistry, including organic chemistry, acids and bases, and the chemistry of calcium. The Parrot Killer Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan Edited on 03-06-2016 11:53
03-06-2016 19:48
IBdaMann★★★★★ (14389)	JamesTankard wrote: Could you please post some links to the research indicating that coral bleaching is not rising globally at an unprecedented rate? Did you just request research on something that isn't occurring or otherwise does not exist? Could you please post some links to the research indicating that the number of left-handed red-haired circus clowns is not rapidly increasing on the eastern sea board? JamesTankard wrote: Not to mention that ocean temperature is not the only factor causing coral bleaching. Is there any bleach involved? Why is it called "Teeth Whitening" and not "Teeth Bleaching"? Might it be that there needs to be bleach to have "bleaching"? JamesTankard wrote: Increased ocean pH due to higher atmospheric concentrations of carbon dioxide greatly contributes to the bleaching Higher atmospheric levels of CO2 have not raised the ocean pH as far as anyone can tell. Have you noticed that the Great Salt Lake and the Salton Sea, just to name a couple, still have the same alkalinity despite decades of acidic rain water being pumped into them? You know about that whole "evaporation" thing, right? . I don't think i can [define it]. I just kind of get a feel for the phrase. - keepit A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist. The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank :sigh* Not the "raw data" crap.* - Leafsdude IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist

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