Global Warming Bests Maxwell's Demon

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Global Warming Bests Maxwell's Demon10-02-2016 17:01
IBdaMann★★★★★ (14406)	James Maxwell proposed a hypothetical system involving a demon that decreased entropy in violation of the 2nd LoT. My discussions on this forum have enlightened me to real world Global Warming methods that should easily demonstrate how we can violate the 2nd LoT and create unlimited energy. Step 1) We create a "greenhouse gas" furnace that simply utilizes the "greenhouse effect" to increase the temperature of the furnace without adding additional energy. Step 2) For greater effect, we apply a "Surface Detail CO2 Feedback Loop" that "amplifies" the temperature increases of step 1. Step 3) We use the "runaway" increased temperature of the furnace to drive pistons (perform work) of an electrical generator. Is there any part about this that shouldn't work? Nobel Prize in physics anyone? . I don't think i can [define it]. I just kind of get a feel for the phrase. - keepit A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist. The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank :sigh* Not the "raw data" crap.* - Leafsdude IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
10-02-2016 17:37
Hank Samler ☆☆☆☆☆ (45)	Hello IB, I'm still waiting on a reply from you on: http://www.climate-debate.com/forum/co2-makes-earth-much-cooler-than-the-moon-because-it-blocks-the-suns-ir-d6-e1055.php I know you're oh so busy running for the Nobel Prize, but maybe you can spare a few grey cells..
10-02-2016 20:01
IBdaMann★★★★★ (14406)	Hank Samler wrote: Hello IB, I'm still waiting on a reply from you on: http://www.climate-debate.com/forum/co2-makes-earth-much-cooler-than-the-moon-because-it-blocks-the-suns-ir-d6-e1055.php I know you're oh so busy running for the Nobel Prize, but maybe you can spare a few grey cells.. Does it have anything to do with the OP? . I don't think i can [define it]. I just kind of get a feel for the phrase. - keepit A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist. The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank :sigh* Not the "raw data" crap.* - Leafsdude IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
10-02-2016 22:37
Into the Night★★★★★ (21597)	IBdaMann wrote: James Maxwell proposed a hypothetical system involving a demon that decreased entropy in violation of the 2nd LoT. My discussions on this forum have enlightened me to real world Global Warming methods that should easily demonstrate how we can violate the 2nd LoT and create unlimited energy. Step 1) We create a "greenhouse gas" furnace that simply utilizes the "greenhouse effect" to increase the temperature of the furnace without adding additional energy. Step 2) For greater effect, we apply a "Surface Detail CO2 Feedback Loop" that "amplifies" the temperature increases of step 1. Step 3) We use the "runaway" increased temperature of the furnace to drive pistons (perform work) of an electrical generator. Is there any part about this that shouldn't work? Nobel Prize in physics anyone? . I love it! You've solved the energy crisis! We could even use it to drive pistons to cool the rest of the world from the effects of CO2! It's limitless energy! The Parrot Killer Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
12-02-2016 06:02
IBdaMann★★★★★ (14406)	IBdaMann wrote:Step 2) For greater effect, we apply a "Surface Detail CO2 Feedback Loop" that "amplifies" the temperature increases of step 1. This is a classic Spinal Tap edition of the Surface Detail CO2 Temperature-increase amplifier. It goes up to "11." It makes Global Warming one louder. . I don't think i can [define it]. I just kind of get a feel for the phrase. - keepit A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist. The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank :sigh* Not the "raw data" crap.* - Leafsdude IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist

14-09-2016 00:37
jwoodward48 ★★★★☆ (1537)	Nonono, the energy from Global Warming only comes from the Sun, it's not free.
14-09-2016 02:00
Into the Night★★★★★ (21597)	jwoodward48 wrote: Nonono, the energy from Global Warming only comes from the Sun, it's not free. Here comes the Magick Blanket or the Magick Mirror argument... The Parrot Killer Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
14-09-2016 03:03
jwoodward48 ★★★★☆ (1537)	Look, what part don't you understand? It's like a bathtub with the drain and the faucet left on. If I completely plug up the drain, it'll overflow. If I clog the drain slightly, the water level will rise until the output equals the input again. Output is proportional to current level only if you ignore other changes, such as the clog. Therefore, equilibrium is at a higher level. The clog itself does not raise the level. Besides, the atmosphere already warms the Earth, right? Why can't a different gas do that more effectively?
14-09-2016 03:58
jwoodward48 ★★★★☆ (1537)	It turns out that the current atmosphere does not, in fact, significantly warm the Earth, at least when compared to its main effect, that of stabilizing the temperature over days and weeks.
14-09-2016 20:55
Into the Night★★★★★ (21597)	jwoodward48 wrote: Look, what part don't you understand? It's like a bathtub with the drain and the faucet left on. If I completely plug up the drain, it'll overflow. If I clog the drain slightly, the water level will rise until the output equals the input again. Output is proportional to current level only if you ignore other changes, such as the clog. Therefore, equilibrium is at a higher level. The clog itself does not raise the level. Besides, the atmosphere already warms the Earth, right? Why can't a different gas do that more effectively? The atmosphere does not warm the Earth. Average Earth is the same as the Moon with the exception that our core is quite a bit hotter. (Yes, it's significant enough to make a difference) The Parrot Killer Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
14-09-2016 21:00
jwoodward48 ★★★★☆ (1537)	Really? I thought the S-B equations said that Earth would be 255K without an atmosphere. That's somewhat chilly.
14-09-2016 21:04
jwoodward48 ★★★★☆ (1537)	Also, why can't you address the main argument? What is a "magic blanket" anyway?
15-09-2016 14:23
IBdaMann★★★★★ (14406)	jwoodward48 wrote:Really? I thought the S-B equations said that Earth would be 255K without an atmosphere. That's somewhat chilly. Why did you think that? Did you see an "atmosphere" variable in the equation? . I don't think i can [define it]. I just kind of get a feel for the phrase. - keepit A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist. The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank :sigh* Not the "raw data" crap.* - Leafsdude IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
15-09-2016 14:35
IBdaMann★★★★★ (14406)	jwoodward48 wrote:Also, why can't you address the main argument? What is a "magic blanket" anyway? Warmizombies are forever describing "greenhouse gas" as a warm, comfy blanket that snuggles the earth in warmth. This reveals the fundamental scientific illiteracy of warmizombies. On the one hand, the concept of a blanket keeping something warm implies that the object to be kept warm is the source of thermal energy, e.g. a person. When the object is NOT the energy source, e.g. a stone at room temperature, a blanket cannot "warm it up" unless the blanket is a magical one. Also, it shows the predictable confusion facing warmizombies who cannot distinguish between thermal radiation and thermal conduction/convection. No blanket can prevent thermal radiation from freely pouring out of any substance. To do so it would make it a very magical blanket. . I don't think i can [define it]. I just kind of get a feel for the phrase. - keepit A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist. The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank :sigh* Not the "raw data" crap.* - Leafsdude IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist Edited on 15-09-2016 14:37
15-09-2016 15:19
jwoodward48 ★★★★☆ (1537)	It is a metaphor, and not a good one. Is that all you know about my arguments? After countless pages discussing absorption wavelengths and SB emission?

15-09-2016 16:01
IBdaMann★★★★★ (14406)	jwoodward48 wrote: It is a metaphor, and not a good one. If you knew then why did you ask? jwoodward48 wrote: Is that all you know about my arguments? No. Have you not been reading, or is your memory strictly short-term? . I don't think i can [define it]. I just kind of get a feel for the phrase. - keepit A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist. The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank :sigh* Not the "raw data" crap.* - Leafsdude IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
15-09-2016 20:24
Into the Night★★★★★ (21597)	jwoodward48 wrote: Really? I thought the S-B equations said that Earth would be 255K without an atmosphere. That's somewhat chilly. The S-B equation only calculates an effective temperature. That has little to do with actual temperature. In every case where this equation is used to calculate what a planet's temperature is supposed to be, it is close but wrong. The reason I have already given. There are a lot of factors that go into a real temperature that S-B by itself doesn't address. All the S-B equation is good for when calculating temperatures of planets and moons is that it gets you somewhere near the ball park. It's not good enough for a ticket into the park, though. A better to use S-B is to show the nature of the relation as something warms or cools. This is the way IBDaMann is using the equation, and produces a far more valid use of it. The Parrot Killer Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
15-09-2016 20:28
Into the Night★★★★★ (21597)	jwoodward48 wrote: Also, why can't you address the main argument? What is a "magic blanket" anyway? The Magick Blanket argument attempts to compare carbon dioxide with some kind insulation, such as a house or even a blanket used to keep you warm. It is a fallacy based on a false equivalence by inserting a heat source under the blanket at the appropriate time and ignoring it at another time. It has been used numerous times by people who don't understand that carbon dioxide has no insulative properties, and that tend to fall for such a false equivalence. The Parrot Killer Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan

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