Earthquakes

BarnabyJones wrote:
There is supposedly some settled science somewhere that shows how much warming is caused by how much carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. Where is it?

Abstract
According to this study the commonly applied radiative forcing (RF) value of 3.7 Wm-2 for CO2 concentration of 560 ppm includes water feedback. The same value without water feedback is 2.16 Wm-2 which is 41.6 % smaller. Spectral analyses show that the contribution of CO2 in the greenhouse (GH) phenomenon is about 11 % and water's strength in the present climate in comparison to CO2 is 15.2. The author has analyzed the value of the climate sensitivity (CS) and the climate sensitivity parameter () using three different calculation bases. These methods include energy balance calculations, infrared radiation absorption in the atmosphere, and the changes in outgoing longwave radiation at the top of the atmosphere. According to the analyzed results, the equilibrium CS (ECS) is at maximum 0.6 °C and the best estimate of  is 0.268 K/(Wm-2 ) without any feedback mechanisms. The latest warming scenarios of Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) for different CO2 concentrations until the year 2100 include the same feedbacks as the 2011 warming i.e. only water feedback. The ECS value of 3.0 °C would mean that other feedback mechanisms should be stronger than water feedback. So far there is no evidence about these mechanisms, even though 40 % of the change from 280 ppm to 560 ppm has already happened. The relative humidity trends since 1948 show descending development which gives no basis for using positive water feedback in any warming calculations. Cloudiness changes could explain the recent stagnation in global warming.

BarnabyJones wrote:
There is supposedly some settled science somewhere that shows how much warming is caused by how much carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. Where is it? If the science is settled on this issue why did the computer models fail by a margin that suggests they are useless? I have heard that all of the green house radiation is absorbed within about ten feet from the earth. But somehow there is additional warming caused by adding more carbon dioxide and the science is settled on that too? And all climate scientists must be experts in the quantum physics of carbon dioxide in atmosphere. Quantum physicists will be the first to suggest that noone understands quantum physics including themselves. But the science is settled on global warming and almost all scientists agree according to most of the media.
The argument sounds like a shouting match between drunks much of the time. The endless confusion and noise over the .002 percent of the atmosphere that is manmade carbon dioxide suggests there might be something wrong with the so called settled science.
Meanwhile there is very good evidence that suggests all of the warming is accounted for by seismic activity. Of hundreds of people I have asked, none has ever heard that there is a new magnitude rating system for earthquakes since the 1970's. The new rating system is based on the total amount of energy released by an earthquake and not on the amplitude of the seismic waves like the old Richter scale. Most of the energy released is said to be in the form of heat caused by the friction between the tectonic plates and the shearing off of rock. The earthquake energy formula gives the amount of energy released by an earthquake by plugging in the magnitude. As an example, the magnitude 9.2 earthquake in 2004 released as much heat as about 20 million one megaton hydrogen bombs. The fault was about 12 miles under the ocean floor and 1000 kilometers long. How is this not going to heat up the ocean and melt a lot of ice? It is just a coincidence that millions of square kilometers of Arctic sea ice melted away suddenly after this earthquake? One sees that the Arctic sea ice melts away proportional to earthquake energy all the way down the graph. And there is about the same time delay between seismic activity and the melting of the ice all the way down the graph. A graph of Arctic temperature is nearly identical to a graph of earthquake energy going back a hundred years. The same is true for a graph of tropical storm and hurricane
intensity. And the same is true for the US temperature graph before it was carefully adjusted by climate scientists. Climate scientists say they had to adjust the temperature record because of the time of day of that thermometers were read back in the 1930's and 1940's. By cooling off that time period and warming temperatures from recent decades they turned a slight cooling trend into a warming trend. And by removing weather station data from rural and higher latitude and higher altitude locations in recent decades they have fabricated a fake media event called manmade global warming. The rural temperature record generally shows either pronounced cooling or no warming through the 1900's.
Why would "scientists" do such a thing? Some say for political reasons or grant money. It is interesting that the data tampering started about the year 2000 right after the invention of weather futures at the Chicago Mercantile Exchange and as seismic activity was becoming highly elevated. One need only slide the earthquake energy graph to the right about two years to create a good approximation of the future temperature record. Investment bankers who spend millions of dollars on meteorologists would never become aware of such information? And all the billions lost by investment bankers in the nuclear industry might be recovered if the public could be scared sufficiently by global warming and billions more in bonus prizes trading carbon credits. But it is only the oil industry that might profit from disinformation about the climate. The fact that earthquakes are not at or near the top of the list of explanations for the warming suggests that much or most of the planet including the scientific community has been rendered near brain dead by the endless noise and confusion coming from the media.
Www.globalcoolingcausesglobalwarming.blogspot.com

BarnabyJones wrote:
https://www.nytimes.com/1989/01/30/business/fbi-commodities-sting-fast-money-secret-lives.html

Vast fortunes can be made in the futures market in a very short time with a relatively small investment. Enterprising climate scientists msking a few adjustments to the temperature record could cash in big while congratulating themselves for cutting down on pollution and bankrupting the terrorist oil empire. Having a crystal ball to tell future temperatures with the earthquake energy graph would certainly be a big advantage.

BarnabyJones wrote:
According to the earthquake energy formula at earthalabama.com, the total energy from a magnitude 9.2 earthquake is 7.78e22. The seismic wave energy is 3.98e18. There was enough heat energy from the 2004 earthquake to melt the Arctic sea ice in it's entirety. The magnitude 9.0 earthquake in Japan was in the middle of the north equatorial current that travels in the vicinity of currents going directly into the Arctic. Ocean currents in the vicinity of the 2004 Sumatra quake would also warm the North Equatorial current.
The geology textbooks say the heat comes from the plates grinding together and the shearing off of rock. If one knows the approximate weight of the moving sections of the earth's crust and their velocity one could approximate the kinetic energy involved. If anyone has ever hit a rock with a hammer, they might notice how quickly the rock heats up. Earthquakes became a suspect to me as a source of warming because they violently disturb large volumes of water and perhaps thousands of cubic kilometers of seawater. The calorie was originally defined by dusturbing a tank of water with counter rotating paddles attached to a falling weight. The mass and distance the weight falls are a known quantity that is divided by the measured temperature increase.
In his speaking appearances for which he is paid $300,000, Al Gore puts up a graph of global temperature going back thousands of years. On the same graph is the carbon dioxide level. The two plots look the same all the way down the graph. High school chemistry says that when a liquid is heated it holds less gas in solution. Mr. Gore's graph is exactly what one would expect as carbon dioxide in the oceans escapes into the atmosphere as temperature increases. Ice core studies have confirmed that the carbon dioxide graph is following the temperature graph. And so Al Gore won a Nobel prize for something that would not even pass a highschool chemistry test.

Wake wrote:

BarnabyJones wrote:
According to the earthquake energy formula at earthalabama.com, the total energy from a magnitude 9.2 earthquake is 7.78e22. The seismic wave energy is 3.98e18. There was enough heat energy from the 2004 earthquake to melt the Arctic sea ice in it's entirety. The magnitude 9.0 earthquake in Japan was in the middle of the north equatorial current that travels in the vicinity of currents going directly into the Arctic. Ocean currents in the vicinity of the 2004 Sumatra quake would also warm the North Equatorial current.
The geology textbooks say the heat comes from the plates grinding together and the shearing off of rock. If one knows the approximate weight of the moving sections of the earth's crust and their velocity one could approximate the kinetic energy involved. If anyone has ever hit a rock with a hammer, they might notice how quickly the rock heats up. Earthquakes became a suspect to me as a source of warming because they violently disturb large volumes of water and perhaps thousands of cubic kilometers of seawater. The calorie was originally defined by dusturbing a tank of water with counter rotating paddles attached to a falling weight. The mass and distance the weight falls are a known quantity that is divided by the measured temperature increase.
In his speaking appearances for which he is paid $300,000, Al Gore puts up a graph of global temperature going back thousands of years. On the same graph is the carbon dioxide level. The two plots look the same all the way down the graph. High school chemistry says that when a liquid is heated it holds less gas in solution. Mr. Gore's graph is exactly what one would expect as carbon dioxide in the oceans escapes into the atmosphere as temperature increases. Ice core studies have confirmed that the carbon dioxide graph is following the temperature graph. And so Al Gore won a Nobel prize for something that would not even pass a highschool chemistry test.

I have to look more deeply into this: 1. This heat is NOT released entirely into the ocean. It is absorbed almost entire entirely into the surrounding rock. 2. Perhaps it eventually is released into the atmosphere through the oceans but this is over a great deal of time and at the cost of far lower temperatures on the average. You saw NO ice melting after the Takashima Earthquake. You appear to be suggesting that the present reduction (what 24% of the ice field since 1979?) would be due to that earthquake. The present volume of the Arctic ice field is about 13,000 km^3. In fact this is minuscule in comparison to Greenland and the Antarctic ice field. Greenland's ice field is some 130 times larger than this floating pile of ice and it has been melting for years. Why wouldn't the Arctic ice field?

While I am in complete agreement with your numbers, which were rather violently different than the other university sources I used, and also that earthquakes carry very large amounts of energy we also know that large quakes occur only once a year somewhere on 520,000,000 miles of the surface of the earth. The ring of fire notwithstanding most of the heating is spread so thin I doubt that we can count it for much.

We still must count the sheer volume of energy provided by the sun every day and not an occasional large Earthquake. And the warming trend still appears to follow the Sunspot cycles and the Milankovitch cycles pretty closely. The latest research also is pointing fingers not at just the Sun's output but the particular wavelength of the light energy released.

Wake wrote:

Wake wrote:

BarnabyJones wrote:
According to the earthquake energy formula at earthalabama.com, the total energy from a magnitude 9.2 earthquake is 7.78e22. The seismic wave energy is 3.98e18. There was enough heat energy from the 2004 earthquake to melt the Arctic sea ice in it's entirety. The magnitude 9.0 earthquake in Japan was in the middle of the north equatorial current that travels in the vicinity of currents going directly into the Arctic. Ocean currents in the vicinity of the 2004 Sumatra quake would also warm the North Equatorial current.
The geology textbooks say the heat comes from the plates grinding together and the shearing off of rock. If one knows the approximate weight of the moving sections of the earth's crust and their velocity one could approximate the kinetic energy involved. If anyone has ever hit a rock with a hammer, they might notice how quickly the rock heats up. Earthquakes became a suspect to me as a source of warming because they violently disturb large volumes of water and perhaps thousands of cubic kilometers of seawater. The calorie was originally defined by dusturbing a tank of water with counter rotating paddles attached to a falling weight. The mass and distance the weight falls are a known quantity that is divided by the measured temperature increase.
In his speaking appearances for which he is paid $300,000, Al Gore puts up a graph of global temperature going back thousands of years. On the same graph is the carbon dioxide level. The two plots look the same all the way down the graph. High school chemistry says that when a liquid is heated it holds less gas in solution. Mr. Gore's graph is exactly what one would expect as carbon dioxide in the oceans escapes into the atmosphere as temperature increases. Ice core studies have confirmed that the carbon dioxide graph is following the temperature graph. And so Al Gore won a Nobel prize for something that would not even pass a highschool chemistry test.

I have to look more deeply into this: 1. This heat is NOT released entirely into the ocean. It is absorbed almost entire entirely into the surrounding rock. 2. Perhaps it eventually is released into the atmosphere through the oceans but this is over a great deal of time and at the cost of far lower temperatures on the average. You saw NO ice melting after the Takashima Earthquake. You appear to be suggesting that the present reduction (what 24% of the ice field since 1979?) would be due to that earthquake. The present volume of the Arctic ice field is about 13,000 km^3. In fact this is minuscule in comparison to Greenland and the Antarctic ice field. Greenland's ice field is some 130 times larger than this floating pile of ice and it has been melting for years. Why wouldn't the Arctic ice field?

While I am in complete agreement with your numbers, which were rather violently different than the other university sources I used, and also that earthquakes carry very large amounts of energy we also know that large quakes occur only once a year somewhere on 520,000,000 miles of the surface of the earth. The ring of fire notwithstanding most of the heating is spread so thin I doubt that we can count it for much.

We still must count the sheer volume of energy provided by the sun every day and not an occasional large Earthquake. And the warming trend still appears to follow the Sunspot cycles and the Milankovitch cycles pretty closely. The latest research also is pointing fingers not at just the Sun's output but the particular wavelength of the light energy released.

Thought I would give you other references on energy release of earthquakes:

http://www.eniscuola.net/en/argomento/subsoil/earthquakes/measuring-the-released-energy/

"To have a vague idea of the energy that is involved, it suffices to think that an earthquake of magnitude 9 has an energy of 2 x1018 joule, where the energy used every year in the entire USA amounts to 6×1019 joule!"

Very large earthquakes are extremely rare. In fact anything over an 8.7 is rare.

2011 - Japan 9.1
2004 - Indian Ocean 9.1 - 9.3
1964 - Alaska 9.2
1960 - Chile 9.5 - largest ever recorded
1952 - Kamchatka USSR 9.0

Two others - one from 1800's and another from the 1700's the size of which could only be judged by damage.

"Determining the Depth of an Earthquake. Earthquakes can occur anywhere between the Earth's surface and about 700 kilometers below the surface. For scientific purposes, this earthquake depth range of 0 - 700 km is divided into three zones: shallow, intermediate, and deep."

The deeper the earthquake the more widely spread and slower the release of the heat energy into the surrounding ocean and atmosphere.

As it turns out the strongest earthquakes are also the deepest because these are large subduction zones rather than strike-slip. Therefore these have the slowest release of energy into the surrounding unaffected zones.

So I guess I'm back into the belief that earthquakes also released a great deal of energy are highly unlikely to be the cause of melting ice in the Arctic Ocean.

GreenMan wrote:
I think there is a relationship between the global average temperature, and earthquake activity. But instead of earthquakes causing it to get warmer, I think it's the other way around. As it gets warmer, we get more earthquakes, because of the weight redistribution caused by the warming. The poles lose weight/mass, and the oceans gain it. This additional weight causes shifting of the crust below, which triggers quakes. I also think that Halo Event CMEs are also responsible for triggering quakes. They warm the core, causing expansion. If that happens when a lot of weight has been redistributed, then there should be more intense quakes. So, if my guestimations are correct, we are in for a bumpy ride ahead.

GreenMan wrote:
I think there is a relationship between the global average temperature, and earthquake activity. But instead of earthquakes causing it to get warmer, I think it's the other way around. As it gets warmer, we get more earthquakes, because of the weight redistribution caused by the warming. The poles lose weight/mass, and the oceans gain it. This additional weight causes shifting of the crust below, which triggers quakes. I also think that Halo Event CMEs are also responsible for triggering quakes. They warm the core, causing expansion. If that happens when a lot of weight has been redistributed, then there should be more intense quakes. So, if my guestimations are correct, we are in for a bumpy ride ahead.

Wake wrote:

GreenMan wrote:
I think there is a relationship between the global average temperature, and earthquake activity. But instead of earthquakes causing it to get warmer, I think it's the other way around. As it gets warmer, we get more earthquakes, because of the weight redistribution caused by the warming. The poles lose weight/mass, and the oceans gain it. This additional weight causes shifting of the crust below, which triggers quakes. I also think that Halo Event CMEs are also responsible for triggering quakes. They warm the core, causing expansion. If that happens when a lot of weight has been redistributed, then there should be more intense quakes. So, if my guestimations are correct, we are in for a bumpy ride ahead.

While this could possibly occur the problem is that the oceans rise from about .040 inches per year to .125 inches per year is almost entirely from the melting glaciers on Greenland. And this isn't on the Ring-of-Fire which encircles the Pacific rim but instead is in the North Atlantic.

Wake wrote:
A further problem is that this ocean rise is reaching it's ending since the glaciers now gather about as much snow/ice as melts off because the low levels areas have melted off and the high altitude sections attract snow. So the load of glaciers are causing some rising in the Greenland landmass.

Wake wrote:
As a glacier melts at some time they become nearly transparent and melt off from both the top and the bottom And this is nearly complete. And these glacier losses show that before the Little Ice Age that this same land was farmed.

Wake wrote:
Apparently people feel the need to be frightened of things returning to "normal" from 500 years ago.

Wake wrote:
There is another problem. While measureing ocean's rise in the last decade or so we saw a sudden doubling of the rise.

Wake wrote:
Looking into it I discovered another oddity - this sudden doubling was due to a THEORY that the mantle of the Earth shrinking as it loses heat.

Wake wrote:
This means that while the ocean's rise was actually the same the added mantle shrinking doubled the ocean rise? What the hell?

Wake wrote:
Barnaby was speaking of there being a great deal of added heat to the upper mantle from earthquakes.

Wake wrote:
At first I doubted that because of the levels of energy I calculated from one source.

Wake wrote:
But he showed another source that actually did put these at a level that could to my mind prevent any shrinking.

Wake wrote:
Remember that these tectonic forces are not from the temperature losses in the inner core but from gravitic stresses and continental drift.

Wake wrote:
The research is far from convincing that there is anything to fear.