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CO2 is but one factor in the climate change argument


CO2 is but one factor in the climate change argument03-05-2017 16:22
dtremaine
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(2)
There are many things that change the climate. The fact that greenhouse gases are beneficial can't totally be denied. Crops grow faster and use less water. Plants need CO2 to survive and they are polluting the atmosphere with Oxygen. While CO2 warms the air Oxygen cools the air. Sun spots are also responsible for warming and correlate even better than CO2 levels. These cooling effects have unintended consequences. Places that are populated with very poor people die from the cold. Because they either can't afford to pay to heat their places they live. Far more people die from cold extremes than hot extremes. Some must burn dung to get warm which kills children from the toxic fumes. If they had electricity millions more will survive and be able to grow food. Real scientists are supposed to try to disprove their theories. This is the only way it can be proven true.
Another consequence from the EPA is from stopping DDT. DDT almost eliminated Malaria. Now Malaria is back killing millions more. These affect the poorest.
We need to put sanity back into real science
03-05-2017 20:36
still learning
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(155)
dtremaine wrote:
......Oxygen cools the air......


I don't recall seeing that assertion before. Can you point to a reference, a link?
04-05-2017 03:37
Wake
★★★★★
(2772)
still learning wrote:
dtremaine wrote:
......Oxygen cools the air......


I don't recall seeing that assertion before. Can you point to a reference, a link?


In this case he is apparently referring to the idea that if it isn't warming, it's cooling.

And as a matter of fact it is. 2/3rds of the loss of the Sun's emissions that make it to the surface of the Earth are removed via conduction and convection. Since O2 and N are the 98% of the atmosphere that means that those two gases carry the brunt of cooling the Earth.
04-05-2017 17:46
Wake
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(2772)
Wake wrote:
still learning wrote:
dtremaine wrote:
......Oxygen cools the air......


I don't recall seeing that assertion before. Can you point to a reference, a link?


In this case he is apparently referring to the idea that if it isn't warming, it's cooling.

And as a matter of fact it is. 2/3rds of the loss of the Sun's emissions that make it to the surface of the Earth are removed via conduction and convection. Since O2 and N are the 98% of the atmosphere that means that those two gases carry the brunt of cooling the Earth.


Something you should be aware of as well is this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geologic_temperature_record#/media/File:Five_Myr_Climate_Change.png

Looking at this record you will see that the Earth is at a low point in the temperature curve and the it would totally normal for it to heat and continue to heat for thousands of years and it would have nothing whatsoever to do with man. (these changes are on the order of 10's of thousands of years so there's plenty of time for man to evolve methods of dealing with the heat.)

As for the total BS by the True Believers:

http://joannenova.com.au/global-warming-2/ice-core-graph/

This not only shows that CO2 follows temperature changes as one would expect since CO2 boils out of the ocean in rising temperatures and is taken up by oceans in falling temperatures but that if you look further you discover that they are lying about this on every front.

Many graphs of this exact same temperature vs CO2 actually reverse the occurrences. Some by charting it in such a manner that it appears to be temperature following CO2 and others purely by misrepresentation.

They will also show charts that are completely misrepresented. These will show that CO2 and H2O have about the same effects. The truth is in the scaling. H2O has 4,000 times the effect of the changes in CO2. This is a lie of omission and is so common among the True Believers that it is part of their religion.

And they will also scale charts showing the growth in CO2 and the growth in temperature so that they appear to be in sync. You can scale dozens of things that are not connected to temperature to appear this same way.

http://www.climatecentral.org/gallery/graphics/co2-and-rising-global-temperatures

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_fI-IgIbzYuA/TOLIx8NqeZI/AAAAAAAAAHY/tnTfRIgphIk/s1600/Chart_Plastics_Recovery_2008.jpg

With hardly any trouble you could make these curves appear related. The same with the growth of waste water treatment plants and the lost of soil in urban areas.
05-05-2017 14:35
dtremaine
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(2)
https://answersingenesis.org/media/video/science/global-warming/
05-05-2017 15:12
Wake
★★★★★
(2772)
dtremaine wrote:
https://answersingenesis.org/media/video/science/global-warming/


I'm a Catholic - that group does not allow anything from that site to load on my computer since I quoted the actual Bible passages they were misrepresenting.
05-05-2017 23:11
still learning
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(155)
dtremaine wrote:
.....answersingenesis.org/media/video....


I looked at the video that you gave the link to.

No mention that I saw of oxygen cooling anything, so no answer in the video to my question.

There is some misrepresentation in the video. For instance, nobody is suggesting that atmospheric CO2 levels should be lowered very far at all, not back down to the preindustrial level of less than 300 parts per million. I think it was Tim Ball that sort of made that claim. Some do think that about 350 ppm might be best though. Some.

I think the misrepresentation of DDT is interesting. It is allowed for disease vector control, malaria control, in some places. Look at the Wikipedia article at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dichlorodiphenyltrichloroethane

There are lots of places to learn more about climate change. Mass media is a poor place to try to learn about any subject. Some websites: https://www.acs.org/content/acs/en/climatescience.html
https://skepticalscience.com/history-climate-science.html

It is possible to be an evangelical and a mainstream climate scientist.
See http://katharinehayhoe.com/wp2016/

If you're serious and want a textbook, try Raymond Pierrehumbert's Principles of Planetary Climate.
06-05-2017 02:52
Wake
★★★★★
(2772)
still learning wrote:
dtremaine wrote:
.....answersingenesis.org/media/video....


I looked at the video that you gave the link to.

No mention that I saw of oxygen cooling anything, so no answer in the video to my question.

There is some misrepresentation in the video. For instance, nobody is suggesting that atmospheric CO2 levels should be lowered very far at all, not back down to the preindustrial level of less than 300 parts per million. I think it was Tim Ball that sort of made that claim. Some do think that about 350 ppm might be best though. Some.

I think the misrepresentation of DDT is interesting. It is allowed for disease vector control, malaria control, in some places. Look at the Wikipedia article at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dichlorodiphenyltrichloroethane

There are lots of places to learn more about climate change. Mass media is a poor place to try to learn about any subject. Some websites: https://www.acs.org/content/acs/en/climatescience.html
https://skepticalscience.com/history-climate-science.html

It is possible to be an evangelical and a mainstream climate scientist.
See http://katharinehayhoe.com/wp2016/

If you're serious and want a textbook, try Raymond Pierrehumbert's Principles of Planetary Climate.


Do you understand that air carries away heat? If so what is air composed of. Give us the exact composition. Now is air cools which part of that air cools through conduction - please look at the definitions of conduction and convection.
07-05-2017 19:39
Wake
★★★★★
(2772)
Wake wrote:
still learning wrote:
dtremaine wrote:
.....answersingenesis.org/media/video....


I looked at the video that you gave the link to.

No mention that I saw of oxygen cooling anything, so no answer in the video to my question.

There is some misrepresentation in the video. For instance, nobody is suggesting that atmospheric CO2 levels should be lowered very far at all, not back down to the preindustrial level of less than 300 parts per million. I think it was Tim Ball that sort of made that claim. Some do think that about 350 ppm might be best though. Some.

I think the misrepresentation of DDT is interesting. It is allowed for disease vector control, malaria control, in some places. Look at the Wikipedia article at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dichlorodiphenyltrichloroethane

There are lots of places to learn more about climate change. Mass media is a poor place to try to learn about any subject. Some websites: https://www.acs.org/content/acs/en/climatescience.html
https://skepticalscience.com/history-climate-science.html

It is possible to be an evangelical and a mainstream climate scientist.
See http://katharinehayhoe.com/wp2016/

If you're serious and want a textbook, try Raymond Pierrehumbert's Principles of Planetary Climate.


Do you understand that air carries away heat? If so what is air composed of. Give us the exact composition. Now is air cools which part of that air cools through conduction - please look at the definitions of conduction and convection.


Please don't interpret me as too harshly criticizing you. That comes from having to continually correct people for the same errors over and over. I have done this for the last 8 years that I can remember.

Do NOT use "skeptical science" for ANYTHING. These people simply jump over anything that disagrees with their positions.

Here is a more neutral approach. And as you see it offers both sides of the story and doesn't attempt to make any judgments beyond who was proven right and wrong. http://history.aip.org/climate/simple.htm#L_M018

Greenland's glaciers are back on the move. This time they're growing and not retreating. This of course is no doubt because of the last 20 years when the "pause" was being advertised as "the hottest years ever in history" simply by using incorrect correction factors for the Earth's temperature being measured in rapidly expanding urban areas.

If you looked at the last 38 years using ONLY the satellite temperature data which give you actual world-wide coverage the mean global temperature has been falling.

Why that's outrageous. How DARE they use actual data that can't be massaged to support their theories?
12-06-2017 22:14
Wake
★★★★★
(2772)
still learning wrote:
dtremaine wrote:
......Oxygen cools the air......


I don't recall seeing that assertion before. Can you point to a reference, a link?


It isn't much but respiration of plants absorbs energy - heat.
13-06-2017 03:23
IBdaMann
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(3109)
Wake wrote: Do NOT use "skeptical science" for ANYTHING. These people simply jump over anything that disagrees with their positions.

True statement.

Wake wrote: Greenland's glaciers are back on the move. This time they're growing and not retreating.

Greenland has been increasing in net ice balance this past century. Over that time Greenland has had growing glaciers and shrinking glaciers, nascent glaciers and dying glaciers.

Warmizombies are relentless in their fear mongering and they love to hype propaganda that ONLY mentions the shrinking glaciers.


.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist




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