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Climate Change


Climate Change16-12-2018 22:23
Wake
★★★★★
(3894)
We continue to see people turning up here spouting the man-made global warming nonsense.

Perhaps we should a little kinder and gentler with them. After all, they are being propagandized on every front. Just on news this morning they were saying about how our snow pack in the Sierra Nevadas is the same as always but springs have been getting warmer (because of climate change) and hence the snow is melting more rapidly and there are more chances for flooding and forest fires without the snow to protect the trees.

Now the propaganda is not with the facts - we are having warmer springs and there has been more forest fires as of late. And increased flooding. The fires have been incited mostly by two years of drought weakening trees so they either died or became havens for the bark beetle which kills them. And very bad California forestry practices which leave these dead trees standing among the live ones. Commercial loggers could remove them but the California environmentalist cry rivers and have political power.

Also, an easy mark is Pacific Gas and Electricity who run the power grids. Two years ago they had four sites burst into flames and it was plain that this wasn't caused by PG&E. They started from downwind to up at the driving time between these fires. But PG&E could be blamed because fires burn the insulation off of wires and then winds whipping the wires about cause visible sparking and so can be blamed for the fires when this is a effect and not a cause. PG&E got tired of being blamed and so they started burying the wiring. The response was that thieves would turn the power off and then strip the wire out of these unground pipes and sell the copper to recyclers. Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

Finally PG&E got a court ruling that they can charge their own customers for the legal costs of these fires being blamed on them. That should start an outcry for far more careful investigations into the causes of fires.

The springs have been warmer because of nothing more than the chaotic weather. Long dry spells and warmer springs have been in the history books of California since it was settled by the Spanish. They are not the least odd. Since the forest fires have been bad of late due to forestry practices you have to expect a great deal of flooding and additional damage to large tracts of California land. You reap what you sew.

The propaganda lies in the attribution of causes.and given enough of this often enough these people no longer question it. This may not be scientific but they are not scientists.

If you go to most of the other climate debate sites you discover that there is no real debate. Man-made climate change so far as they are concerned is an established fact and if you offer any real debate they simply kick you off of the forum.

So if we confront newcomers with too much negative response they aren't going to learn anything and instead flee back to the safety of the Yellow Brick Road.

So if someone turns up again let's try to be more polite and informative rather than derisive.
Edited on 16-12-2018 22:27
16-12-2018 23:27
HarveyH55
★★☆☆☆
(390)
I do try to be informative, but I also can be a little sarcastic. Think people seek out the forums, to try to make sense of it. The otherside, is deliberately confusing, to hide what's really going on, and pushy too. The set a rather short time span to get a whole lot done, our face uncontrollable disaster. Doesn't help much, when we do have a natural catastrophe, and it gets hyped, and used as an example of what will happen, everyday, not might, but will happen. It seems reasonable to do something, anything, to avoid death and destruction. On this side of the table, we offer no cause, or solution, since neither exist, just normal, natural, and been going on forever. Just too simple, to adapt to the environment, and take steps to minimize the death and damage from natural disasters. We use to, and were very effective at it, but it was costly, and took a lot of physical labor. Money is better spent on frivolous things like parks and monuments, work is indoors, pushing computer keys. Fires are fueled mostly from the dead underbrush. We don't clear it out much, nor seem to like forest animals that use to do a lot of that either (let's go hunting sometime...). Floods use to be controlled pretty good with ditches and canals, flood plains. We don't keep pace with new construction, or keep the waterways clear of blockage. Houses use to be built, to withstand the worst of conditions, now they are built to the most minimal standards, cheapest materials, and more for the way they look, rather than functional. Insurance will pay to replace the house and belongings, so no great risk...

I agree that we don't need to force anything, no arguments or name calling, the truth speaks loud enough, and clear enough on it's own.
17-12-2018 21:16
Into the Night
★★★★★
(6962)
Wake wrote:
We continue to see people turning up here spouting the man-made global warming nonsense.

Perhaps we should a little kinder and gentler with them. After all, they are being propagandized on every front.

Just the fake news, the schools including the universities and colleges, and of course the government. Does seem to come from everywhere, doesn't it?
Wake wrote:
Just on news this morning they were saying about how our snow pack in the Sierra Nevadas is the same as always but springs have been getting warmer (because of climate change) and hence the snow is melting more rapidly and there are more chances for flooding and forest fires without the snow to protect the trees.

Pretty ridiculous. Warmer springs don't melt snow.
Wake wrote:
Now the propaganda is not with the facts - we are having warmer springs and there has been more forest fires as of late. And increased flooding.

I doubt anyone is even measuring the temperature of the springs in California. Most are pretty remote.
Wake wrote:
the fires have been incited mostly by two years of drought weakening trees so they either died or became havens for the bark beetle which kills them.

Bark beetles will attack any tree.
Wake wrote:
And very bad California forestry practices which leave these dead trees standing among the live ones. Commercial loggers could remove them but the California environmentalist cry rivers and have political power.

Dead right.
Wake wrote:
Also, an easy mark is Pacific Gas and Electricity who run the power grids. Two years ago they had four sites burst into flames and it was plain that this wasn't caused by PG&E. They started from downwind to up at the driving time between these fires. But PG&E could be blamed because fires burn the insulation off of wires and then winds whipping the wires about cause visible sparking and so can be blamed for the fires when this is a effect and not a cause.

There is no insulation on power line wires. A sparking wire up on the pole won't start a fire (unless a tree falls on it and is causing the sparking). Falling power lines cause fires. That's what has been happening. PG&E has not been maintaining their power poles. They are completely to blame.
Wake wrote:
PG&E got tired of being blamed and so they started burying the wiring. The response was that thieves would turn the power off and then strip the wire out of these unground pipes and sell the copper to recyclers.

I don't believe this. Thieves have to get into the substation and throw the main breaker bars, which produces a spectacular arc and they will probably electrocute themselves wandering around in a substation. Then they have to dig up the lines. They are not copper anyway. They are aluminum. So a thief would have to be mighty stupid to try to get copper power line wires out of the ground!
Wake wrote:
Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

Not damned at all. Thieves steal copper. They can get that from phone lines, cable lines, some power pole transformers (dangerous!), and various statues. It's a lot easier to get aluminum from soda cans, antenna structures, and window frames than from power lines. There are aluminum aircraft too, but they will be shot if they are caught on the airport disassembling aircraft for scrap metal. Airports have security, even if it's not obvious (like a small airport).
Wake wrote:
Finally PG&E got a court ruling that they can charge their own customers for the legal costs of these fires being blamed on them.

Nothing like customer service!
Wake wrote:
That should start an outcry for far more careful investigations into the causes of fires.

No, it will just generate more anger against PG&E. Sounds like they deserve it.
Wake wrote:
The springs have been warmer because of nothing more than the chaotic weather. Long dry spells and warmer springs have been in the history books of California since it was settled by the Spanish. They are not the least odd. Since the forest fires have been bad of late due to forestry practices you have to expect a great deal of flooding and additional damage to large tracts of California land. You reap what you sew.

Agreed.
Wake wrote:
The propaganda lies in the attribution of causes.and given enough of this often enough these people no longer question it.

The whole basis of the fake news and how it operates. The Church of Global Warming is also quite relentless.
Wake wrote:
This may not be scientific but they are not scientists.

Science isn't scientists. It is a set of falsifiable theories. Many priests in the Church of Global Warming hold 'climate science' degrees. These people deny science. Check out the programs at Berkeley. The education biz is, after all, a biz. Berkeley will be happy to sell you a degree to make money. I have very little respect for the Berkeley science department.
Wake wrote:
If you go to most of the other climate debate sites you discover that there is no real debate. Man-made climate change so far as they are concerned is an established fact and if you offer any real debate they simply kick you off of the forum.

There are some like this. There are some like this for any political issue. They are run by liberals that 'believe in free speech'. HAR.
Wake wrote:
So if we confront newcomers with too much negative response they aren't going to learn anything and instead flee back to the safety of the Yellow Brick Road.

I call such sites the Kiddie Pool.
Wake wrote:
So if someone turns up again let's try to be more polite and informative rather than derisive.


I pull no punches. If they want to go back to the Kiddie Pool, they will anyway, whether I am polite to them or not. Sooner or later, they will find confrontation here. There is no being polite to someone trying to argue taking your rights away or trying to destroy capitalism. These people want to discard and destroy the Constitution of the United States (as well as the constitutions of the various States, including California). They've been pretty successful destroying the California Constitution. Now they want to spread their misery elsewhere.

No thanks. I give no quarter.


The Parrot Killer
17-12-2018 21:26
Into the Night
★★★★★
(6962)
HarveyH55 wrote:
I do try to be informative, but I also can be a little sarcastic. Think people seek out the forums, to try to make sense of it. The otherside, is deliberately confusing, to hide what's really going on, and pushy too.

Quite right. There are two people in favor of the idea of global warming here. Those that are investigating the Church of Global Warming, and those that are devout members of it. There are two basic reasons people seek out these forums:

1) They are already in favor of the Church of Global Warming on at least some level. This includes those investigating this religion.
2) They are trying to fight the propaganda put out by the Church of Global Warming.

HarveyH55 wrote:
I agree that we don't need to force anything, no arguments or name calling, the truth speaks loud enough, and clear enough on it's own.

Agreed. Insults are a fallacy. They are too often used instead of presenting any arguments. While insults can be satisfying emotionally, they are not an argument in and of themselves.

Using lots of insults is the bully's way. It is typically the way of the socialist, which touts 'free speech'. They are an effort to stifle that speech. What they really want is 'free speech for me, not for you'.


The Parrot Killer
18-12-2018 22:42
Wake
★★★★★
(3894)
Nightmare - stop with your crap about things you don't know about. Bark Beetles normally reproduce under the bark of trees. If the infested trees have been stressed from drought it is easier for the beetles to reproduce more and they can kill the trees more often. Why healthy trees seem able to fight off the beetle infestations successfully is not presently known though they have been studied a great deal.

You are obviously not an electrician and it doesn't seem to occur to you that all you have to do is cut the live wire at any of the local ground access boxes. What in the hell would make you think that you have to throw a switch?

And your ignorance of criminal acts by firebugs is so ridiculous it is funny. Two years ago they caught several of these fire starters because they began putting cameras along highways and would time when cars passed and when fires started. The fact that the four fires started going upwind and at exactly driving times between the locations is a dead giveaway.

You don't like PG&E that's too bad. That doesn't make fires their fault just because you see lines with the insulation burned off from set fires sparking in heavy winds.
19-12-2018 20:43
Into the Night
★★★★★
(6962)
Wake wrote:
Nightmare - stop with your crap about things you don't know about. Bark Beetles normally reproduce under the bark of trees. If the infested trees have been stressed from drought it is easier for the beetles to reproduce more and they can kill the trees more often. Why healthy trees seem able to fight off the beetle infestations successfully is not presently known though they have been studied a great deal.

No, Wake. Bark beetles will attack healthy trees too.
Wake wrote:
You are obviously not an electrician and it doesn't seem to occur to you that all you have to do is cut the live wire at any of the local ground access boxes. What in the hell would make you think that you have to throw a switch?

Cutting a live wire will kill you, Wake.
Wake wrote:
And your ignorance of criminal acts by firebugs is so ridiculous it is funny. Two years ago they caught several of these fire starters because they began putting cameras along highways and would time when cars passed and when fires started. The fact that the four fires started going upwind and at exactly driving times between the locations is a dead giveaway.

Strawman fallacy. I'm not talking about arsonists. We have them here too.
Wake wrote:
You don't like PG&E that's too bad.

No, I don't. They don't maintain their equipment properly, and it starts fires.
Wake wrote:
That doesn't make fires their fault just because you see lines with the insulation burned off from set fires sparking in heavy winds.

There is no insulation on a power line, Wake.


The Parrot Killer
19-12-2018 22:40
Wake
★★★★★
(3894)
One would expect that when you are talking about things to an electronics engineer that you would withhold your fantasizing about things you don't know about.
20-12-2018 00:08
Into the Night
★★★★★
(6962)
Wake wrote:
One would expect that when you are talking about things to an electronics engineer that you would withhold your fantasizing about things you don't know about.


Inversion fallacy. You are not an electronics engineer. You have already demonstrated your lack of electronics knowledge. In other words, I'm calling you a liar, Wake.

Apparently you are not aware that overhead power lines do not have insulation on them. They are bare wire. They are aluminum as well, Wake. They are not copper. The conversion to your copper house wiring occurs in your electrical panel using specially coated connectors.


The Parrot Killer
Edited on 20-12-2018 00:12
20-12-2018 06:00
GasGuzzler
★★★★☆
(1086)
It appears ITN is quite right about this. Admittedly I didn't know, but a quck Google does confirm it.
Attached image:

20-12-2018 11:11
Into the Night
★★★★★
(6962)
GasGuzzler wrote:
It appears ITN is quite right about this. Admittedly I didn't know, but a quck Google does confirm it.

Insulation is not only unnecessary, it's also heavy. For 800kv lines, typical of a long haul line, the insulation would be expensive as well. Even for the 1500v service lines (the kind that feed the houses street by street), insulation would prove to be incredibly expensive and heavy.

Easier just to use glass insulators at each tower and at each pole. They are easily stackable to obtain any length insulator you need to isolate the line from the grounded towers.

Underground lines are great (less tree damage and the like, and it looks better), but it is expensive. It's use is limited to small areas such as city cores and some suburbs. Underground lines don't have to worry about the weight. Their conductors are also aluminum, not copper.


The Parrot Killer
20-12-2018 17:43
Wake
★★★★★
(3894)
GasGuzzler wrote:
It appears ITN is quite right about this. Admittedly I didn't know, but a quck Google does confirm it.

Actually we're talking about two different things. The overhead transmission lines that can have 1,440 volts or even 2,880 volts on them are placed on these huge metal towers. The three opposing phases are the entire width of those towers apart. These are uninsulated because they are too high for even tall trees to come into contact with them and the lines are too far apart for there to be any possibility for these wires to touch and the voltage and current on these lines is so high that the usually aluminum wiring would flashover and melt if they ever touched. But I've never seen this occur. If one of these lines were to fall on the ground it has no reference so it is like a dead wire.

These lines run into what is known as a substation where the voltage is stepped down to 480 or 240 volts for distribution. These are the power lines that are on your telephone poles and they are insulated. Go outside and look up on your pole. Are there bare lines coming into your home?

Now around step-down transformers that are on telephone poles you might see bare wires but these are 240 volts and don't run bare for more than a telephone pole's distance for house to house distribution. And it is not normal to run uninsulated lines anywhere on these poles because that causes a danger to telephone and power workers.

These are the lines are supposedly sparking. Rather than the high voltage lines being separated by the entire width of a pole these lower voltage lines can be barely inches apart. Out in the areas where these fires started there were only insulated wires.

When you hear people saying that they "saw the electric lines sparking" this is because the fire beneath the electric lines have burned off the insulation and the high winds that normally cause these fires to be dangerous are throwing the wires back and forth and striking each other. And the implication that sparking wires up on a pole starting fires is pretty far fetched since the sparks themselves are up 30 feet in the air and the same winds that cause the sparking also pull the wires apart. Even when cars run into the telephone poles and knock them over on a pole with a transformer on them they do not start fires.

Other problems are kids shooting holes in the transformers on telephone poles. This drains the oil insulator and coolant out of the transformers and in cases of a high power usage can overheat and actually start the telephone poles on fire. But normally they wouldn't load a transformer so much that they could get that hot.

Nightmare as usual thinks that he knows what he's talking about but doesn't.
20-12-2018 20:43
Into the Night
★★★★★
(6962)
Wake wrote:
GasGuzzler wrote:
It appears ITN is quite right about this. Admittedly I didn't know, but a quck Google does confirm it.

Actually we're talking about two different things. The overhead transmission lines that can have 1,440 volts or even 2,880 volts on them are placed on these huge metal towers. The three opposing phases are the entire width of those towers apart. These are uninsulated because they are too high for even tall trees to come into contact with them

WRONG. Trees do grow tall enough to touch high tension lines, Wake. That's why the power companies cut a clear path for these lines to follow. These lines typically carry 800kv for the long haul stuff and 400kv for linkage and feeders.
Wake wrote:
and the lines are too far apart for there to be any possibility for these wires to touch and the voltage and current on these lines is so high

WRONG. There is a reason the voltage is kept so high, Wake. It's to keep the current low.
Wake wrote:
that the usually aluminum wiring would flashover and melt if they ever touched.

WRONG. Breakers are everywhere, including the substations that feed these lines, and even at the power suppliers themselves.
Wake wrote:
But I've never seen this occur.

I have seen flashover on high tension lines. It's spectacular when it does. The last time I saw it, a bird caused it. There was nothing left of the bird but burnt feathers.
Wake wrote:
If one of these lines were to fall on the ground it has no reference so it is like a dead wire.

WRONG. DEADLY WRONG! Never go near a downed high tension wire! It may still be live! Never go near any downed wire! It may still be live!

The reference point for all wires is Earth ground. The ground you are standing on. Do not touch downed wires or rescue anyone near a downed wire! Don't try to push the victim or the power line with a stick! You can't help anyone if you also become a victim! If lines land on your car, do not get out of the car!

Call the power company and tell them about the victims, if any. Tell them about the downed line. Their monitoring equipment can only go so far. You can also use 911 in most areas.


Wake wrote:
These lines run into what is known as a substation where the voltage is stepped down to 480 or 240 volts for distribution.

WRONG. Distribution lines on the poles typically carry 2400 volts but can be as low as 1500 volts. Some of them run as high as 33kv.
Wake wrote:
These are the power lines that are on your telephone poles and they are insulated.

They are not insulated, Wake.
Wake wrote:
Go outside and look up on your pole.
Yeah. Go do that.
Wake wrote:
Are there bare lines coming into your home?

Feed lines from the pole into your home's service entrance are insulated, Wake.
Wake wrote:
Now around step-down transformers that are on telephone poles you might see bare wires but these are 240 volts and don't run bare for more than a telephone pole's distance for house to house distribution.

WRONG. Primary windings on these transformers carry the 1500v or more typically 2400v distribution voltage. The secondary windings are converting three phase to biphase for your home and reducing the voltage to 240v.
Wake wrote:
And it is not normal to run uninsulated lines anywhere on these poles because that causes a danger to telephone and power workers.

WRONG. The lines are uninsulated on the street by street poles. Only the lines that come from the secondary winding of the pole transformers are insulated, Wake.

Wake wrote:
These are the lines are supposedly sparking.

Any high tension line or distribution line can spark, Wake.
Wake wrote:
Rather than the high voltage lines being separated by the entire width of a pole these lower voltage lines can be barely inches apart.
Go out and look at the power lines on a distribution pole (the top ones). There's a good foot or so of distance between the wires, Wake.

Wake wrote:
Out in the areas where these fires started there were only insulated wires.
Yup. All distribution lines running on poles are uninsulated, Wake.

Wake wrote:
When you hear people saying that they "saw the electric lines sparking" this is because the fire beneath the electric lines have burned off the insulation
There is no insulation, Wake.
Wake wrote:
and the high winds that normally cause these fires to be dangerous are throwing the wires back and forth and striking each other.

There are ways to mitigate this. PG&E is too cheap to do it. The most common way is to install vane breaks on the lines in wind prone areas.
Wake wrote:
And the implication that sparking wires up on a pole starting fires is pretty far fetched since the sparks themselves are up 30 feet in the air and the same winds that cause the sparking also pull the wires apart.

Sparks fall, Wake. There's this thing called 'gravity'. Further, the lines themselves are not well attached to the poles by PG&E. They fall in windstorms, touching off grass fires.
Wake wrote:
Even when cars run into the telephone poles and knock them over on a pole with a transformer on them they do not start fires.

Yes they can, Wake. We had one here start just such a fire just last week. Fortunately, the heavy rains at the time kept the fire from getting very far.
Wake wrote:
Other problems are kids shooting holes in the transformers on telephone poles. This drains the oil insulator and coolant out of the transformers and in cases of a high power usage can overheat and actually start the telephone poles on fire. But normally they wouldn't load a transformer so much that they could get that hot.

Normally they wouldn't. The liquid coolant can simply leak out over time as well. Kids shooting holes in them certainly doesn't help.

Wake wrote:
Nightmare as usual thinks that he knows what he's talking about but doesn't.

Inversion fallacy. You have demonstrated you know squat about electrical power systems. You are assuming extremely dangerous situations concerning downed power lines. You probably wonder why these systems use alternating current instead of the more convenient direct current. You have already demonstrated you know nothing about why we use such high voltages on these systems.


The Parrot Killer
Edited on 20-12-2018 21:07
21-12-2018 04:12
HarveyH55
★★☆☆☆
(390)
Find it amazing that people don't know a lot about the power lines around their home. People get fried every year, trimming their own trees, near the power lines, or doing illegal stuff up the poles (stealing power, telephone, or cable TV). There have been public service messages on TV, for over 40 years (remember from when I was a kid). Every utility bill, comes with various warnings about power lines, over head and buried. Electricity seeks to take the shortest path to ground. Anytime you offer a better path, it'll jump for it. I never liked the high tension towers, they make a creepy sound on wet days, makes my skin crawl. Insulation on high voltage wire is thick and expensive, couldn't imagine the cost for miles of it, weather resistant, and tough too, since doesn't take much physical damage to compromise. Relying on insulation for this application would have been costly and foolish, surprised the government didn't think it would be a good idea... Of course, there wasn't any practical solution, when the power grid was first installed. The current setup, was safest, more cost effective solution, using the materials available. With miles of cable, if the insulation went bad, you wouldn't know, until after it caused a problem anyway, sort of pointless, waste of time, money, and material.
21-12-2018 06:05
Into the Night
★★★★★
(6962)
HarveyH55 wrote:
Find it amazing that people don't know a lot about the power lines around their home.
You and me both!
HarveyH55 wrote:
People get fried every year, trimming their own trees, near the power lines, or doing illegal stuff up the poles (stealing power, telephone, or cable TV).
Quite true.
HarveyH55 wrote:
There have been public service messages on TV, for over 40 years (remember from when I was a kid). Every utility bill, comes with various warnings about power lines, over head and buried. Electricity seeks to take the shortest path to ground. Anytime you offer a better path, it'll jump for it.
Also quite true.
HarveyH55 wrote:
I never liked the high tension towers, they make a creepy sound on wet days, makes my skin crawl.

What you're hearing is the leakage current to ground. It's not visible, but it's there, electrons flowing through the air to get to ground. Fortunately, it's a very small current and not dangerous. It just makes you skin crawl to listen to it, like fingernails on a chalkboard (remember those?).
HarveyH55 wrote:
Insulation on high voltage wire is thick and expensive, couldn't imagine the cost for miles of it, weather resistant, and tough too, since doesn't take much physical damage to compromise.

The insulation on high voltage wire is cheap and free. It's the air itself. I compromised, the arc quits upon discharge and new air comes in to replace the ionized air.
HarveyH55 wrote:
Relying on insulation for this application would have been costly and foolish, surprised the government didn't think it would be a good idea...

The government has no clue. They are the last people to run a power system.
HarveyH55 wrote:
Of course, there wasn't any practical solution, when the power grid was first installed.

Yes there is. It's still the most practical solution as the insulation is self repairing. It's the air itself.
HarveyH55 wrote:
The current setup, was safest, more cost effective solution, using the materials available.

Nothing better than just the air.
HarveyH55 wrote:
With miles of cable, if the insulation went bad, you wouldn't know, until after it caused a problem anyway, sort of pointless, waste of time, money, and material.

It wouldn't be good as good old air for insulation.


The Parrot Killer
21-12-2018 19:37
HarveyH55
★★☆☆☆
(390)
My high voltage insulation reference, was from the old CRT type TVs, but also inside your house as well, which is protected from the elements. It would be crazy impractical to use and rely on a material to insulate transmission lines, which may not be good enough anyway. Putting something dangerous out of reach, is a much safer way to go. Doesn't help much with drunk drivers, or those sending those important text messages, and they knock over a power pole...
21-12-2018 21:51
Into the Night
★★★★★
(6962)
HarveyH55 wrote:
My high voltage insulation reference, was from the old CRT type TVs, but also inside your house as well, which is protected from the elements. It would be crazy impractical to use and rely on a material to insulate transmission lines, which may not be good enough anyway. Putting something dangerous out of reach, is a much safer way to go. Doesn't help much with drunk drivers, or those sending those important text messages, and they knock over a power pole...


Heh. True! The high voltage terminal on the back of the TV tube (the plate voltage) typically ran about 21kv for B&W sets to 27kv for color sets. That tube also has an outer conductive surface that's grounded to the case. That makes a capacitor out of the plate element. That's why that voltage can remain there for quite awhile even after you shut off the power and unplug the TV. The dielectric for that capacitor is glass. A pretty good one. Leakage current is minimal. That's why you always sneak a grounded screwdriver under that rubber cup to discharge that sucker before removing the plate wire from that tube.

That wire has insulation on it because the cramped space in the TV. Even then, leakage current can be high. You can sometimes see the glow when you turn the lights off while the set is operating. As you know that insulation is quite thick.

It's the same in a car engine. The high tension leads on a car's ignition system are also carrying a lot of voltage (about 2kv) to cause that spark inside the engine. These are also thick cables, most of which is insulation. They are right next to the grounded engine case itself. Leakage here can cause oil fires. Engines are oily things. Lost a Saab that way once.

That high voltage terminal is no higher than a trunk distribution line (the kind of pole that has a set of three wires typically arranged in on a slanted crosstree). These are higher than the street by street distribution lines, which typically carry only 2400v or so. The trunk lines typically carry 31kv. None of them are insulated wires. They use air for insulation.


The Parrot Killer




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